Author Topic: WEP on the C205 (Read 3437 times)

FTJR · « **on:** May 18, 2004, 02:16:06 AM »

Hi Guys,

Im away from home for a while but it just occurred to me that while the C205 has the same engine as the 109, it does not have the same amount of WEP? or does it?

Anyone care to comment.

Regards:confused:

GScholz · « **Reply #1 on:** May 18, 2004, 03:25:39 AM »

No, it has half the wep (like other planes). The 205 has the same engine, but I am unsure if it had MW50. That may explain it. It's the same with the Clowntail Ki ... also a DB powered plane.

Pyro · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2004, 09:10:49 AM »

Good question, but is the real question why does the 205 have half as much time or why does the 109 have twice as much?

I don't know why the G-6 and G-2 have 10 minutes. I assume that inadvertantly migrated from the G-10 unless I've forgotten something that I used to know. The G-10 has water injection, so I believe 10 minutes is correct for that. Can anybody verify the time limit on the 605A(obviously without the early restriction on emergency power)?

GScholz · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2004, 09:30:53 AM »

Yes, I've always wondered why all the 109s have the exact same WEP times despite having different engines. Also wondered why the Dora and 152 had the same cool down time as the 190As, but that seems to have been fixed now. The 109G6 had MW50 I believe.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2004, 11:39:46 AM »

But are we sure they are the same engines?

For example the c202 has a DB601 just like Bf109E4 but the c202s engine seems to be more powerful.

So maybe the c205 did not have exactly the same DB605 as the 109Gs?

In fact I think they built their own copies of DB605 engines, their version is the Fiat RA.1050 Tifone.

Perhaps that explains the difference.

Batz · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2004, 04:05:36 PM »

The G6/R2 was the recce version of the G-6 equipped with the MW-50.

The serial installation of mw50 on G-6, was designated as a G-14.

G-6 with mw50 = G-14

The mw50 ran 10 on 5 off. On the K-4 mw50 lasted 26 min.

The 202 and 205 did not have mw50..

vorticon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2004, 04:16:01 PM »

speaking of wep...

as i recall from 2 sources (hurricane Messershmidt, and fighting aircraft of ww2) the hurricane and spitfire 1 did not have wep...ours do

Kweassa · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2004, 07:04:03 PM »

Probably means the WEP time for the F-4, G-2 and G-6 should all be shortened to 5 minutes or so(arrrrgh!)...

Orka · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2004, 08:56:43 AM »

Firstly, we need to know what kind of "WEP" we have modeled.

1.- WEP=110%?
2.- WEP=110%+boost (if able)?

In this case, 109 Es, Fs, G2 and G6 (thinking that we have and early one) must be in 1st option. And this mean less than 5 minutes of engine endurance.

Nashwan · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2004, 11:51:16 AM »

Quote

Can anybody verify the time limit on the 605A(obviously without the early restriction on emergency power)?

Last I saw, Butch has checked documents and come to the conclusion the Db 605A was limited to 1.3 ata until some time in 1944, which would put it beyond the service life of the G2, iirc.

Quote

as i recall from 2 sources (hurricane Messershmidt, and fighting aircraft of ww2) the hurricane and spitfire 1 did not have wep...ours do

With the introduction of 100 octane fuel to Fighter Command in March 1940, Hurricanes and Spits were allowed to use 12 lbs boost presure, up from the previous 6.25 lbs.

12 lbs should take the Spitfire I up to 310 mph at sea level, iirc (I'm on holiday and away from my sources). AH models just over 290 mph according to the help page charts, which is equivalent to 9 lbs boost on a Spitfire II.

So, AH does model some level of WEP on the Spitfire I, just not as much as it actually had available.

VO101_Isegrim · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2004, 12:11:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pyro
Can anybody verify the time limit on the 605A(obviously without the early restriction on emergency power)?

Time limit for 1.42ata was 3 minutes for 605A, the coolant could take maximum temperature for up to 10 mins. 1.3ata could be maintained 30 mins.

When MW 50 was introduced, limit rose to 10 minutes with MW50, as been stated.

British documents of captured 109G-2/trop dated the early months of 1943 already state they found engine cards in 109Gs that have 1.42ata allowed for their 605A engines.

For 601E of the 109F-4, it was 5 minute rating at 1.42ata, and same 30 min for 1.3ata. W

Pyro, If you fetch an email address, I can send the relevant docs.

But I think it should be kept in mind that the engines may be the same in different planes, but the coolant system is often not, it may have less or more cooling capacity, depending on airframe design..

GScholz · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2004, 12:15:09 PM »

I have this file on the DB605A, but I'm unable to find any reference to time limits. Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the German language can be of greater assistance.

gatt · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2004, 12:32:53 PM »

PYRO,
every italian reference about the use of license built DB605A (i.e. the G.55 flight manual) show the early restriction on emergency power. Only God knows what pilots did of that restriction ...
BTW, you have the G.55 manual and can easily see the early time limits.

Grun,
the C.205, G.55 and Re2005 had the same engine of the G-2's and early G-6's.

GScholz · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2004, 08:24:15 AM »

One thing: are the G2 and G6 WEP at 1.42 ata or 1.3 ata? I'm wondering about this seeing how our G2 and G6 is about as fast on WEP as Finnish and Russian G2 tests done at 1.3 ata / 7000 meters.

Pyro · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2004, 10:34:13 AM »

Thanks for the input everybody. I can be emailed through the email link on this board.

I'm curious about the 1.42 ata restriction. I've always thought that the restriction was just a teething problem on the early G-2s. If it was not fixed until '44, exactly what was the cause and fix?