Author Topic: A GV question (Read 2111 times)

badhorse · « **on:** February 05, 2007, 06:59:38 AM »

What is the damage model for GV's?

There have been many times when I will shoot a tank with a panzer or Tiger and he will explode. But I get an assist because he had previously been straffed by an airplane. Even if he shows no apparent damge, ie. still moving, still shooting.

Does the kill go to whomever shoots the target first? I would think blowing someone's turret off causes more damage then a straffing run with .50 cals.

Just curious.

rogerdee · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:38:28 AM »

the damage model is very strange but if a guy straffs a tank with 1000 .303 rounds although he dont do no damage it counts the hits.so your 1 tank round my kill the tank but he had 999 hits before u.

AKDogg · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:23:38 AM »

I personally think the kill should go to the guy who inflicts the most damage. Not by bullet counts,lol:lol

Dace · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:00:35 PM »

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the GV damage model is WAY more complicated than the airplane damage model and not easily explained by anyone but HT or Pyro.

Murdr · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:01:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rogerdee
the damage model is very strange but if a guy straffs a tank with 1000 .303 rounds although he dont do no damage it counts the hits.so your 1 tank round my kill the tank but he had 999 hits before u.

Bullets can bounce off armor. Just because hit sprites are seen does not mean damage was done.

Kill goes to the one who does the most damage.

Bronk · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:08:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Murdr
Bullets can bounce off armor. Just because hit sprites are seen does not mean damage was done.

Kill goes to the one who does the most damage.

Strafe a tiger with a 110 till guns dry . The tiger will have/ can have NO apparent damage. IE no turret smoke no engine smoke.

Now have a friend hit it with a tank round and see who gets the kill.

I'll bet you get it in the 110.

Bronk

Murdr · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:39:17 PM »

Bullets can bounce off armor. If they do bounce off, they will not score their potential damage. Can does not mean the same as will.

In your somewhat obvious example, if you add up the equivilent damage potential in pounds of orndinance for the gun package of the 110 it would be nearly 3000lbs of ordinance. Some percentage of those rounds will score damage.

The strongest tank AP round is equilivent to 117lbs of ordinance. Do the math.

Bronk · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:57:41 PM »

Murdr I understand how it works. What I'm getting at is the damage model for GV need a bit of tweaking.
Since tanks take no real damage from HE rounds until AP used. (other than tracking them)
The kill should be awarded to either.
A. The player penetrates the armor.
B. The near instantaneous exposure to large amounts of HE. IE GP Bombs

Bronk

hubsonfire · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:03:23 PM »

I do agree that it's a bit odd that the guy who does no damage gets the kill.

Murdr · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:14:04 PM »

In that respect it is the same as the aircraft damage model. Just because part failure doesn't happen, doesnt mean there's "no damage". Don't tell me you've never been tracked or lost engines or guns from pure strafing?

AKDogg · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:20:53 PM »

then why when I strafe a gv just 1 time with a hog, I get the kill 90% of the time when a gv or a bomb is dropped on it? Keep in mind that the hog that i fly is the -1 with 50cals. U telling me that a .50 cal is gonna do any damage to a tiger or panzer? Only thing i might do to either is track and even that a slim chance with .50 cals.

Bronk · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:21:50 PM »

I have never lost a turret or engine from HE rounds. That is in a T-34, panzer, or a tiger.
I have been tracked though.

AP from IL2's and 2D's are another story.

Bronk

Edit: I don't think tracking a tank would qualify as killing it. Crew ac still turn the tank to keep frontal armor toward enemies, and still fight.
Once engine is shot out it becomes much harder to survive.
Same can be said if main gun is out.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:27:00 PM »

That's the point- it's exactly like the aircraft model. The damage characteristics are completely different, yet even ineffective strafing (that which results in no damaged components) awards the kill to the fighter.

Mustaine · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:27:28 PM »

HiTech has stated numerous times on here and at the con's the GV damage model is the most complex in AH. it details trajectory, angle of impact, velocities, thickness of armor in minute details, all that.

Lusche · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:31:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Murdr
In that respect it is the same as the aircraft damage model. Just because part failure doesn't happen, doesnt mean there's "no damage". Don't tell me you've never been tracked or lost engines or guns from pure strafing?

The resulting effects are actually quite different when comparing GVs and planes. We do not talk about tracked / engineless tanks. A tank still driving and shooting has apparently no damage at all.

Most strafing attacks on GVs don´t do any kind of damage. I have flown hundreds of Il2 strafing attacks vs GVs. There are countless instances where I failed to hurt a T34 or Tiger with my guns. The tank is still driving, still shooting and still has it´s tracks. A friendly tank finally engages the enemy, manages to kill it and - I got the kill credit. Without doing damage. I even got kills vs Tigers in pure MG armed fighters. I don´t think that this is fair.

And that is why I don´t strafe enemy tanks any more in presence of friendly tanks unless I have a decent chance to hurt them (Il-2 vs panzer IV ect.)