Author Topic: Basic Head On defense and reversal  (Read 689 times)

Offline jerkins

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Basic Head On defense and reversal
« on: May 27, 2008, 10:22:06 AM »
I always see complaints about H.O.'s so i decided to write this up while bored one day.

A Basic Head On Defense and Reversal.

This is an extremely simple, yet often effective way to avoid head on attacks (H.O.’s) and reverse the attacker.  It is NOT a solution to all cases.

The Situation:

You are Co Alt, Co E with an enemy plane.  The type of plane is not very important for this discussion, but lets say it’s a bird with plenty of cannon.  You turn toward him and quickly realize that you will soon be flying right into a barrage of 20mm or 30mm rounds. What do you do, how do you avoid this?

Step One: Reaction

How much time do you have to react?  If both planes are traveling at 300 mph, at 3000 feet you have just 3.4 seconds until a collision. Most H.O. attackers start firing at 1000 feet, leaving only 2.3 seconds to react.  Average human reaction time is .2 seconds, leading to 2.1 second window with 3000 feet of separation to decide what action to take.

Step Two: Initial Action

The H.O. is eminent.  What do you do, try to take this guy on, guns blazing?  Sometimes this may work, but this is a game of chance.  Wouldn’t you rather turn the tables in your favor?  This simple maneuver will avoid the H.O. and reverse the attacker.  First, nose down slightly.  Don’t point at the ground, but get your plane below his.  This will not only create some separation but it will put you out f view, under the nose of the attacking plane.  It will let you gain some E on your opponent.  Next, create some horizontal separation.  Aim your plane slightly left or right.  This makes it harder for the H.O. attacker to hit you, he will need to pull a negative g, sweeping, blind deflection shot.  While yes, sometimes a player will make this shot stick, it is not usual.  Another advantage to meeting the attacker like this is that it will put him into a nose down merge.  You are no in a good position on him.

Step Three: The Merge

You have avoided the H.O. attack, the enemy fired, but your position lead to a miss, and left the attacker is a poor position.  You should be below and to the side of him, the attack should be above and to the side of you.  The attacker should also be nose down to you.  When he is roughly 400 ft ahead, pull an immelman. An immelman is simply a half loop.  You should fallow his plane in your views, the attacking plane should be in the back up view, then the up view.  After completing the immelman you should be above and behind the H.O. attacker.

Step Four: Post Merge

The enemy is now where you want him to be.  The poor positioning of his plane on merge has allowed you above and behind him.  It is only a matter of time before you get your shot.


Signs to Look For:

If the enemy tries to get below you, he is very likely trying a similar maneuver on you.  If you notice this, the enemy will usually not H.O. you (stress on usually, not always).  This could be a rare occasion in aces high, you could be in for a good fight.

What Can Go Wrong:

-If you pull your immelman too soon, he could simply follow you up and your as good as dead.
-The attacker could land a hit on the deflection shot.
-Watch out for enemy a bit further back, they can slide in and ruin your day.

This is not a perfect solution to all H.O. situation.  It is merely a guide to help you avoid some of them. 

Have fun and good luck.
 :salute
Jerkins
Strike Bandits
B~Smooth Xtreme Racing

Offline Yenny

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 10:30:36 AM »
You can use barrel roll, or rolling scissor as defensive maneuver when trying to force your enemy to overshot. Here is a film of how it kinda looks like when you try to pull it off.

http://files.filefront.com/Barrel+Rollahf/;10376177;/fileinfo.html
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2008, 11:55:32 AM »
what if he duplicates your every move?
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline jerkins

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 12:06:19 PM »
what if he duplicates your every move?

Then Hooray, time for a dogfight!  Your next move will depend on plane match up, E states, so on, so on.
Jerkins
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Offline trotter

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 12:26:59 PM »
You can use barrel roll, or rolling scissor as defensive maneuver when trying to force your enemy to overshot. Here is a film of how it kinda looks like when you try to pull it off.

http://files.filefront.com/Barrel+Rollahf/;10376177;/fileinfo.html

First, this isn't at all what the thread is about. The thread is a rather good simple writeup on reversals on the merge. Overshoots are something else, something one hopefully won't have to worry about in a 1v1 situation if they follow the advice in the opening post well enough.

Second, in your film, I see that you were trying to create an overshoot,...why did you not chop throttle? The 51 in your film did not overshoot, he was chased off your six by ProJoee. There is a difference.

Sorry to come off so sour but your post is exactly what keeps some very new players from wanting to learn ACM. They'll take everyone's advice as golden, and as result get discouraged when they watch this film and get very very confused...because it has nothing to do with the original post. And if you're going to post film of an overshoot, at least post film of a successful one. <S> !

Offline Yenny

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 01:12:04 PM »
First, this isn't at all what the thread is about. The thread is a rather good simple writeup on reversals on the merge. Overshoots are something else, something one hopefully won't have to worry about in a 1v1 situation if they follow the advice in the opening post well enough.

Second, in your film, I see that you were trying to create an overshoot,...why did you not chop throttle? The 51 in your film did not overshoot, he was chased off your six by ProJoee. There is a difference.

Sorry to come off so sour but your post is exactly what keeps some very new players from wanting to learn ACM. They'll take everyone's advice as golden, and as result get discouraged when they watch this film and get very very confused...because it has nothing to do with the original post. And if you're going to post film of an overshoot, at least post film of a successful one. <S> !

I think I was at my D9's best corner speed 200ish knots? so I didn't wanna chop throttle. The 51 was slowly overshooting and I was getting inside his turn. I think i musta misread the thread !! but i post the reply so early my time=/ was still sleepie.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 01:27:57 PM »
Then Hooray, time for a dogfight!  Your next move will depend on plane match up, E states, so on, so on.
:aok

ofcourse it's at that point i usually lose!! :rofl i try something slightly different each time,and someday will figure it ouit
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Redd

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 11:56:31 PM »
what if he duplicates your every move?

You can usually tell a guy that is going to HO vs a guy that is going for an aggressive positional merge. If he starts to nose down a little way out to get vertical separation , be prepared for a good fight - if he's flying straight and level at you - be prepared for a HO

Plane type is also a factor - I expect (and usually get ) a HO attempt from every Tiffie, most LALA's, most niki's ,most 190's , most 109's , all chogs and most hurriC's.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 12:03:02 AM by Redd »
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Offline Greebo

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 04:23:12 AM »
Good write up. Whenever I hear "learn some ACM, HO dweeb" or the like on 200 I think "well there's two players that need to learn some ACM".

Sometimes just going nose low and to one side isn't enough to avoid getting hit. If you are slow and low, or the other guy isn't going very fast you might need to throw in a couple of direction changes to force him adjust his aim. Just pulling up or down a bit or barrel rolling can be enough. The key is to gauge when he is about to shoot, be unpredictable and not to blow too much E doing it.

One useful tactic is to turn below his nose. Lets say he is in a right hand bank trying to pull lead on you, you reverse from a left to a right hand bank and you disappear below his nose. This is the ideal time to pull up into the immelman.

Bear in mind that if the other guy is going really fast he will often not be able to pull lead on you as you pull up into the immelman without blacking out. This means you can pull up earlier than you normally would and gain more angles. If you go for an earlier pull up though, make it a steep climbing turn as it makes you harder to hit.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 04:29:57 AM by Greebo »

Offline Agent360

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Re: Basic Head On defense and reversal
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2008, 05:53:38 AM »
Nice write up Jerkins.

I might add to your adivice a few things.

First, to take a ho shot requires you to NOT MAKE A LEAD TURN. If you ho you must keep guns until u pass the target. As Jerkins states "nose low and create seperation".

I would add to your advice the "lead turn". Anytime someone comes screaming in nosing down or just strait on weather they fire or not is irrelevant. All that is required is a chop throttle and oblique turn back to them. IF THEY FIRE at 1000 out its a simple matter to immediatly chop throttle and oblique turn to the right or left...your choice. The fact that they must hold their gun solution for the hit means you can just lead turn them either directly in front or in cold six and you will be behind them immediatly. The only thing that will save them is to run or if they have the E to go up. Either way they are at an immediate disadvantage. If they go up for a BZ set up so what. They are just wasting energy and time. Countering this is very easy. Just wait. They come down...you avoid....they make a mistake and they die.

When I am coming to a merge I am thinking about E and angles. I want to make my merge so that I can turn with the advantage. If I see firing then It's gonna make it even easier to make the lead turn.