P-47 Gun Loadout vs. Maneuverability

[WarTooth]

Hello,

For you P47 pilots having tried just using the 6 x 50 cals rather than the 8.  Have you found any noticeable difference in maneuverability when using the 6 x 50s with minimal ammo load vs 8 50s?

Thanks,

WT

[Steel]

     You are only talking a 300 hundred  or so pounds between the two gun packs with same ammo load. Quite often your fuel balance will exceed 4-5 times that difference. In terms of percentage its only around 2%, hardly a show stopper. Being comfortable with your gun package is more important than a few hundred pounds. If you go from 8 (big ammo package) to 6 (small ammo package) its only 700 pounds. Thats only about a 5% performance gain but youll certainly notice it. Will it effect the outcome of the fight....doubtfully unless your very evenly matched.

Edit: Rough estimates based on D11

<S>
Steel

[splitatom]

you should take less fuel you rarely need 100% on any of the 47 exept the d-11

[BnZs]

A Jug with less than 8 .50s is like a hamburger without the beef.

[B4Buster]

I always take 100% fuel and the biggest gun pack in the jug. The jug, really, is by no means a suitible dogfighter in the MA, so I'm patient with it, show discretion, and keep my alt, which makes 100% fuel a must IMO. I suggest 8 guns, tried the jug with both and didn't notice much of a difference. Whereas the fights are generally below 10K in the MA, take the 8 guns, and fly the jug like a brick

[bj229r]

jug with 6 guns is an F6 with a couple eggs underneath

[WarTooth]

>> jug with 6 guns is an F6 with a couple eggs underneath

Except no bubble canopy.  Never loosing site of your enemy can be useful. ;-)

[bj229r]

I can see em ok in jug (excluding D11)...figuring out what to DO with them is something else

[B4Buster]

jug with 6 guns is an F6 with a couple eggs underneath

No way, Jug can't turn nearly as well

I love the jug, it's probably my second most-flown plane in the MA after the 38. It's a great high alt fighter, but high alt fights don't take place in the MA. Until they do, It will stay a BnZer which it thrives at.

[Gooss]

B4Buster,

Look for some films of Yucca in a jug.  You'll change your mind about a jug's dogfighting ability.  He could do a defensive roll ending in a gun solution that was deadly.

It got to where that if I knew he was online, jugs got a free pass, so I could live on.

I haven't seen him in awhile.  I think he had some squaddies just as talented.  It was really not a good idea to press the fight against them. 

Blukitty employed similar dogfighting tactics mostly in hogs but also jugs.  Those films would be helpful, too.

HONK!
Gooss

[B4Buster]

Yes that's not hard, in the MAs, a simple rolling scissor will cause the other peroson to overshoot, giving you solution. O upped a jug yesterday, 2 ponys and a lala were chasing me. I was pulling away from the ponys, but the lala caught up causing me to turn. One rolling scissor got the lala to overshoot, and I sawed his wing right off on the snapshot. It's not impossible, but the jug against a decent stick in an F6 for example won't win.

[BnZs]

Every variant of the Jug will turn somewhat better than the P-51 does with flaps usage. In-game of course, not in reality. 

DokGonzo's shows the P-47D-11 turning a smaller circle than the P-51B AND P-38J, both with no flaps and full flaps.  I'll admit this fact is kind of counter-intuitive and wacky, the P-38 should really, really be able to out-turn a Jug with it's Fowler flaps deployed, and the P-51B should turn better in either configuration....but I digress. The point is a light P-47 is better in a turn fight than anyone gives credit for, *if* it comes down to that.

[B4Buster]

Yeah, key word is with the flaps. At high speed a jug and pony will out turn anything (due to their high speed flaps) When you have flaps down, though, you won't be going very fast for long. The only time a 51 makes me nervous in my 38 is on the first two turns, because they can deploy flaps sooner. After that they (51 and 47) become bricks.

I don't agree with that turning chart, but I didn't actually fly in WW2, and more of the plane modeling I know is that of HTC's

[BnZs]

At high speed a jug and pony will out turn anything (due to their high speed flaps)

I keep hearing that. I don't know why. If you are above both aircraft's cornering speed, then both of you are limited by Gs unless one of you is limited by control authority. They won't "out-turn" anything above ~270mph they'll turn "about as well" because all our pilots can stand the same amount of G. The only help maneuvering flaps are above corner speed is as an aid to deceleration in the turn, you don't need the extra lift. Speed brakes would serve this function even better...

[B4Buster]

Ok, on an initial merge doing somewhere from 340-400. On a first engagement of a sortie I've found I'm in those seed ranges for the most part, a little out of the 38's flap range, but still in either a jug or pony's