New box?

[Mace2004]

I'm considering building a new box as my Dell Gen3 XPS is stuck in the single core world.  Quick thoughts on this build?

I know the quad core doesn't really help AHII but it's part of a barebones package and I can upgrade.  The EVGA moboard supports up to 1600MHz FSB while the quad core only goes to 1066MHz so there's plenty of room for improvement.  Instead of the Quad core I was thinking of either the E3600 3.3GHz or E3400 3.0GHz duos.  Each have 1333MHz FSB and are the newer 45nm technology.

- EVGA nForce 790i Ultra SLI Motherboard
- Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66GHz 8MB Cache Processor
- OCZ Dual Channel 4GB PC12800 DDR3 1600MHz Memory
- Hitachi 1TB SATA Internal Hard Drive
- EVGA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 Video Card 896MB GDDR3, PCIe2x16  (2 cards, could add a 3rd)
- Ultra X-Blaster Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
- Ultra LSP750 750-Watt Power Supply
- ZEROtherm / Butterfly BTF90 CPU Cooler
- Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP3 OEM Version

[TilDeath]

I like the 790i board dispite the problems with various BIOS make sure you get the A1 model
Quads are great but if your not doing a whole lot of Video editing, huge spread sheets, heavy graphics or looking to set some scores for benchmarking programs the E8400 is a tried and true CPU.
I am an OCZ dealer and would not use any of their lower end memory, Platnium, Reaper or Blade series or configuration specific mem (SLI etc).
Hard Drive the Western Digital has a 5 year warranty and a 32mb cache... very fast drive, just under the Raptor's in speed WD6401AALS
I am using the 260's in both a SLI and Tri-SLI and no problems
This Ultra Case makes use of only 2 120mm fans and the fans are not included so you will need to add $30 for decent fans.  Heat is the worst enemy of a system NZXT Tempest (Airflow King)
Never heard of this PSU either.... PC Power & Cooling, OCZ is all that I use.  Again tried and true

Checked some reviews on the HeatSink and Fan.... it does not perform well.  OCZ Vendetta 2 Editors Choice Best HSF for 2008 Benchmark reviews (reviewed over 50 fans and the Vendetta 2 was the Champ all around)

My buc two fifty input

TD

EDIT:  Here is what reviewer posted for temps... way to high:  e8400 duo hold 38* idle and 52* at load    The temps at idle should be high 20s to low 30's this what the E8400 posts using the NZXT Tempest Case and OCZ Vendetta 2 

[Mace2004]

Thanks TD, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Probably the most intense thing I do is AH, not big graphics or video production stuff so really don't see the need for the quad.  Also, it's been mentioned here before that a good high-speed duo does more for AH then the lower speed quads.

The RAM is OZC's Intel Extreme Edition Dual Channel 4098MB PC12800 1600MHz.  It's part of the barebones but can be changed unless you think it's good.

Thanks for the other recommendations also, I may go away from the barebones and just assemble everything myself.  I wasn't super impressed with the case and did notice the two fans were not included, it also doesn't have a lot of vents.  It looks to me there are plenty of boxes out there with better cooling.

Thanks,
Mace

[TilDeath]

Thanks TD, that's exactly what I was looking for.

The RAM is OZC's Intel Extreme Edition Dual Channel 4098MB PC12800 1600MHz.  It's part of the barebones but can be changed unless you think it's good.

Thanks,
Mace

I would need to know the MB model to tell you which memory to get.  If youa re getting the 790i this is an Nvidia chipset so the Intel Extreme would not be a good choice.

[Getback]

I like the 790i board dispite the problems with various BIOS make sure you get the A1 model
Quads are great but if your not doing a whole lot of Video editing, huge spread sheets, heavy graphics or looking to set some scores for benchmarking programs the E8400 is a tried and true CPU.
I am an OCZ dealer and would not use any of their lower end memory, Platnium, Reaper or Blade series or configuration specific mem (SLI etc).
Hard Drive the Western Digital has a 5 year warranty and a 32mb cache... very fast drive, just under the Raptor's in speed WD6401AALS
I am using the 260's in both a SLI and Tri-SLI and no problems
This Ultra Case makes use of only 2 120mm fans and the fans are not included so you will need to add $30 for decent fans.  Heat is the worst enemy of a system NZXT Tempest (Airflow King)
Never heard of this PSU either.... PC Power & Cooling, OCZ is all that I use.  Again tried and true

Checked some reviews on the HeatSink and Fan.... it does not perform well.  OCZ Vendetta 2 Editors Choice Best HSF for 2008 Benchmark reviews (reviewed over 50 fans and the Vendetta 2 was the Champ all around)

My buc two fifty input


TD

EDIT:  Here is what reviewer posted for temps... way to high:  e8400 duo hold 38* idle and 52* at load    The temps at idle should be high 20s to low 30's this what the E8400 posts using the NZXT Tempest Case and OCZ Vendetta 2 

Was looking at your website. Nice! Mace may want to check it out.

[Mace2004]

Just saw the new Lancool cases that are supposed to be out the end of July.  Now those are some nice boxes, I think I'll shoot for one of them and the Vendetta2.  Strange that they packaged the Intel specific RAM with the Nvidia chipset, seems like someone wasn't thinking.

[Reschke]

That wasn't a bad deal from Tigerdirect you are talking about. I looked at picking up the i7 barebones from them last week but didn't like the case that came with it. Basically the same thing you posted but only about $100 more overall than this one.

[Mace2004]

OK guys, after the very helpful inputs and doing a bit more research here and with reviews here's my second attempt and reasoning behind the choices. 

-First, I may substitute the new Lancool case should it become available soon.  That looks like it's got some very nice features. 
-Single EVGA GTX 275 vice dual GTX 260 and raised the PSU to 850W.  From reviews, it looks like the standard GTX275 is easily overclocked to higher performance than the basic GTX285 at $100 less.
-I'm keeping the EGVA 790i Moboard with SLI so I'll have the option of adding a second GTX 275 plus it uses DDR3 RAM.
-Speaking of RAM I'm really not all that sure of my choice.  There seems to be lots of reviews of the OCZ Reaper memory that complain it doesn't run at the advertised speeds.  The G.Skill also isn't perfect in that department but less complaints than the Reaper's.  Advice for DDR3 memory that will work well with this board for a decent price is welcome.
-Corsair PSU vice OCZ. The Corsair is highly ranked and has much better reviews from purchasers with far fewer complaints of blown PSU's after a year or DOAs.
-Last, I've also looked at going with the i7 chip and architecture but I don't see the advantage for the extra cost.  I have no need of a quad core but have been thinking a bit about "future proofing"; however, at this time I just don't see the need for the extra $150-200 over the Wolfdale.

The Details:
- NZXT TEMPEST Crafted Series CS-NT-TEM-B Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $90.00
- CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - $119
- EVGA 896-P3-1170-AR GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - $220 + COD-WAW and Terminator Sal
- EVGA 132-YW-E179-TR LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 790i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - $184.99
- Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8500 - $189.99
- OCZ Vendetta 2 OCZTVEND2 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - $39.99
- G.SKILL Trident 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-16000CL9T-6GBTD - $149.99   
- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives $94.99
- SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model SH-S222A   $25.99
- Microsoft Windows XP Home SP3 for System Builders - $89.99

Subtotal: $1,205 - $80 in rebates = $1,125

[BaldEagl]

Are you going with a 64 bit OS?  I'm guessing you are with all that RAM and the GPU.

Just make sure the PSU is 80+ certified or better and has the needed amps on the 12V rails and the Corsair will probably work fine.

Re: RAM not running as advertised:  I use Kingston Hyper X in a 780i.  It's rated to run at 4-4-4-12 @ 2.0V but when you put it (or add sticks) in it defaults to 5-5-5-16 @ 1.85V.  Simple matter of setting it manually to spec.  I didn't read the reviews but could it be people don't understand (at least some) RAM defaults down to assure campatibility?

If AH is your major use then the Wolfdale will be fine.  If you're planning for the future or if AH is only a small part of what you do then the I7 is the way to go but much more expensive.  The I7 will run most general apps faster.

[Getback]

I would really encourage you to go with PC power and cooling Power supply.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009

[Mace2004]

Are you going with a 64 bit OS?  I'm guessing you are with all that RAM and the GPU.

Just make sure the PSU is 80+ certified or better and has the needed amps on the 12V rails and the Corsair will probably work fine.

Re: RAM not running as advertised:  I use Kingston Hyper X in a 780i.  It's rated to run at 4-4-4-12 @ 2.0V but when you put it (or add sticks) in it defaults to 5-5-5-16 @ 1.85V.  Simple matter of setting it manually to spec.  I didn't read the reviews but could it be people don't understand (at least some) RAM defaults down to assure campatibility?

Ahhh...you caught me on the OS, I completely forgot about XP limitation.  I wanted to stick with XP as it's nice and stable.  I've heard of problems with 64bit XP and, of course, the debacle that is Vista so wanted to stay away from changes until W7.  So what exactly am I losing if I stay 32 bit for now (besides being limited to 4GB RAM)?  I suppose I could go with Vista and get the W7 upgrade soon thereafter but that sure sounds like a PITA, I'd have to get everything running with Vista then probably make a bunch more adjustments with W7.  What do you guys recommend?

The Corsair has a single 12V bus with 70amps, is 80+ and a 140mm Fan.  Think it'll do the trick.

Memory is something I've got to study, most of what you're saying is pretty much Greek to me but I'm sure I can figure it out.  :-)

[BaldEagl]

Don't forget the 32 bit XP limitation will only recognize 3.25-3.75 Gb of RAM depending on the allocation to the motherboard, USB ports and other devices.  Then it will be reduced further by your video card memory.  I've got 4 Gb in my machine with a 512 Mb GPU and have 2.75 Gb of RAM available to the system.

No application can allocate more than 2 Gb of RAM in Windows so unless you have a lot of open apps all that extra RAM is just going to sit there unused.

If you feel you need it there is a 64 bit version of XP.  If it were me I'd stick with 32 bit and not put as much RAM in the system.  If it was me and I felt I needed the extra RAM I'd get 64 bit Vista with the upgrade option and upgrade to Win 7 as soon as it was available but you may find some of your older apps won't work with a 64 bit OS.

As to the RAM the 5-5-5-16 and 4-4-4-12 numbers are latencies and they vary by manufacturer and part number.  Lower is better.   The final number (CAS Latency) is the most important.  In general, as the numbers go down (tighter timings) the voltage to achive them must go up.  For this reason a lot of high performance RAM will default to looser timings at lower voltages to assure compatibility with a wide range of motherboards.  To get the full performance from the RAM you need to go into the BIOS and manually set the timings and voltages to manufacturer specs. 

Clock speed also plays a role.  In general faster RAM needs to run with looser timings than slower RAM.  If you hear of someone overclocking RAM you'll usually also hear that they are loosening the timings.  For this reason you should get the fastest RAM that you can forsee needing, but not much faster than you'll need.  This optimizes the clock speed vs latencies.

As an example, a Wolfdale CPU is a double pumped dual core.  Operating at 1333 FSB it's core clock speed is 333 therefore DDR2 667 or DDR3 1000 RAM would give you a 1:1 clock ratio (667/2 because the RAM is DDR2 or 1000/3 for DDR3).  With that CPU you could easily overclock it to a 1600 FSB (400 core clock @ 3.8 Ghz for the E8500) in which case you'd want to start with DDR2 800 or DDR3 1200 RAM.  Of course you could go even faster.  I've gotten my E6750 (2.66 Ghz) over 3.6 Ghz on a temporary basis in the past so you could exceed 4 Ghz without question.

[TilDeath]

Memory running at Advertised speeds.  If you get mem that is supposed to run at say 1600 or 1800 or 1866.  This HAS to be done manually.  When using (DDR3) higher speed memory it will default to 1066 or 1333.  This is a BIOS limitation.  If you look on the MB specs it will say 1600+ OC, meaning in order to use the higher memory you must set it in the BIOS and it is considered Overclocked, is it overclocked from its rated speed, No.  The advantage with the 790i chipset is that there is memory out there that has a module on-board telling the BIOS what it is and what speed it will run, again a BIOS setting.  Most of the DDR3 does not have this module since DDR3 is considered High Performance memory and its assumed that the installer has knowledge what and how to configure it.  I personally do NOT go by people that buy somethings review.  You do not know what knowledge/experience someone has that is making the post.  In addition the manufactures (most of them) will write reviews on the competitions product not showing it in a good light.  This is a known practice on NewEgg.

OCZ Reaper is some of the best Overclocking Mem out there.  I have some reaper 1800 on an i7 system I built yesterday and it runs at its rated speed and beyond.  I have had it up to 2006mhz so far without failure.  The Reaper and Platinum series memory is what I use in almost every build I do and have yet to have a problem getting it to run at the rated speeds no matter what they are.

TD

[Mace2004]

OCZ Reaper is some of the best Overclocking Mem out there.  I have some reaper 1800 on an i7 system I built yesterday and it runs at its rated speed and beyond.  I have had it up to 2006mhz so far without failure.  The Reaper and Platinum series memory is what I use in almost every build I do and have yet to have a problem getting it to run at the rated speeds no matter what they are.

That's great news TD, Reaper is definently in and G.Skill's out...of course the Reaper is backordered but I can wait :-)      I figured that the purchaser's reviews cannot be completely trusted for all the reasons you mentioned, it's great to be able to get a more detached and accurate assessment here.  Thanks for all your help.

 Mace

[eagl]

Win7 is coming out so soon that you probably shouldn't worry much about the OS now.  I'd probably re-use the XP license from your old computer or buy the cheapest OEM OS you can find now (vista or XP, don't matter).  Then get one of the currently offered discount win7 upgrade pre-orders ($99ish) and upgrade when it ships.

Don't skimp on hardware now just because it will be a few months before you install an OS that will use it...