What are the most-even matchups tank vs. tank? Your opinion please.

[Brooke]

For special events, what do you consider the most-even matchups of the different countries' tanks?

For example, Tiger vs. Sherman VC is at least a somewhat reasonable matchup.

For Panzer vs. T-34, I'm assuming that the T-34/76 is more even than the T-34/85 to the Panzer.

For Panzer vs. M4A3, which is more even, the M4A3(75) or the M4A3(76W)?

What about for T-34's vs. the M4A3's?

[E25280]

I would put it like this:

T-34/76 = Sherman 75 < PzkwIV < T-34/85 = Sherman 76 < Firefly < Tiger.

Although in relative terms, the PzkwIV's gun makes it able to compete fairly well against the T-34/85 and Sherman 76.  In that scale, I personally think the T-34/85 is a closer match up than the 76 because of the gun.

And as we all know, any tank can kill any other in the right circumstances, so if you wanted to do a Kursk-like scenario of Tigers vs. T-34/76s, you could balance it simply by giving the lesser vehicle superior numbers.

[Karnak]

The two most even fights we have in the game are T-34/76 vs M4A3(75) and T-34/85 vs M4A3(76), but those aren't useful for WWII scenarios.

In either M4A3(75) vs Panzer IV H or T-34/76 vs Panzer IV H the Panzer completely dominates the fight. Going to the M4A3(76) vs Panzer IV H or the T-34/85 vs Panzer IV H just reverses that and the Panzer IV H is now dominated by the American and Soviet tanks.

I guess Sherman VC vs Tiger I is balanced at close range due to the fact that any hit on either penetrates nearly every hit.  At long range the Tiger is superior though.

[Lusche]

In either M4A3(75) vs Panzer IV H or T-34/76 vs Panzer IV H the Panzer completely dominates the fight. Going to the M4A3(76) vs Panzer IV H or the T-34/85 vs Panzer IV H just reverses that and the Panzer IV H is now dominated by the American and Soviet tanks.

Right now, my best bet would be on balancing a scenario by mixing tanks in a resonable way.

For example western Allies vs Germany.

the (76) dominates Panzers. So throw in a few (really few) Tigers to compensate, but don't add any Fireflies.
Because the VC and Tigers would basically cancel out each other, so it's just back at the (76w) vs Panzer IV equation.

Of course one could argue about the exact numbers necessary. How about (for example) 30 Sherman (76)w vs 25 Panzer IV and 5 Tiger I?
Similar for the eastern front: 30 T-34/85 vs 25 Panzer IV and 5 Tiger I

In both scenarios, each side would have to use teamwork & coordination to overcome the opposition.

[Nemisis]

T-34/76 and  (maybe) M4A3(75) v.s. Panzer

Tiger vs Sherman firefly and T-34/85

M4A3(76) vs T-34/85


The only tanks the M4A3(75) has any chance against in a head on engagment is a panzer or another M4A3(75). both T-34's have no possible frontal shots, and neither does the tiger.

The M4A3(76) and T-34/85 are pretty evenly matched, the 85mm looses its punch pretty fast, and up close, the 76 can kill the T-34/85.

Karnack has it close, but not quite right. On the panzer, the M4's 75 tends to give a lot of turreting shots at long range, and gives a lot of kills out to 1600yds. And the T-34/76 over the M4A3(75) because of its speed, turret traverse speed, and HVAP rounds.

The same goes to the T-34/85 up close, the turret travers and HVAP rounds will give it an edge, but less than the T-34/76's since the M1 AT gun can penetrate the T-34/85's armor up close.

I spend a lot of time in GV's, and have even tested them with friends in the DA. Those seem about the most even match ups you are going to get untill they add more tanks.

Hope that helps sir <S>,
                                 Nemisis

[Lusche]

The only tanks the M4A3(75) has any chance against in a head on engagment is a panzer or another M4A3(75). both T-34's have no possible frontal shots, and neither does the tiger

Haven'ttested longer ranges yet, but at 500yds the (75) can blow up the T34/76 with a a single hit.

[Nemisis]

Unless the offline practice doesn't get updated, the T-34's armor just gives ricochets except at the base of the hull (bottom of the slope), at point blank range, and to the turret with zero deflection.

I had forgotten about that, but I still don't feel that its a fair fight.

[Easyscor]

In the OP, it was about our SEA events, and implied the set would be Axis vs Allied tanks, divided into Western and Eastern fronts.

From the posts so far, I’m getting these lineups for AHv2.19p4:
--------------------------------------------------
German | vs | Western ..| Eastern
Panzer .| vs | M4(75/76) | T34/76
Tiger ....| vs | Firefly   .....| none
--------------------------------------------------
Is this right?

In our goal to achieve balance, I’m wondering if limiting the loadouts would have any effect, for example, deny HVAP. Would something similar allow for balanced match-ups with equal numbers of tanks on each side, and if so, what loadouts accomplish this? Particularly for the Eastern front.

[Lusche]

After some thinking, I can only reinforce my point: Do not look too desperate for a fair 1v1 equivalent. Use different tanks with adjusted numbers to get an overall fair & balanced mix.

[Easyscor]

After some thinking, I can only reinforce my point: Do not look too desperate for a fair 1v1 equivalent. Use different tanks with adjusted numbers to get an overall fair & balanced mix.

.
The CMs always do that, but with all the changes recently, it's best to get new input on the current situation with GVs. It's very hard to quantify those balancing numbers without knowing relative power of the tanks in the current version of the game.

[Nemisis]

Easyscor, the T-34/85 will give a fair fight for the tiger depending on the map (some maps just breed close quarters fights, IDK why. They just do).

Aside from that, your list was accurate. Perhaps have a ratio of 2-1 for the M4A3(75)  and M4A3(76) respectively? The M4(76) is slightly superior to the panzer, while the M4(75) is slightly inferior. This is assuming 50/50 numbers.

But one thing you need to remember when you're using GV's in the special events: better tanks only go so far towards making up for a lack of numbers. Even if you have Tigers against T-34/76's, the tigers will be swamped.

In the last HMS Blitzkrieg, the final frame was 3 tigers against 8 T-34/76's. We held the town for 7mins or so, and killed only 5 T-34's (we were holed up in the TT on the Nisles map, and 2 of us were turreted in the first 3 mins).

[BaldEagl]

Your Eastern front would have to be the Tiger vs T-34/85 hoping that proper tactical use of the T-34's speed would compensate against the slow traverse rate of the Tiger's turret.

It will be a very challenging proposition for the T-34's if the numbers are equal but, depending on the map and situation could be accomplished.  Even a small bump in numbers in favor of the T-34 would help a lot and it wouldn't take that large a numbers advantage to even things out.

[Easyscor]

I think we're getting some agreement.

From the posts so far, I’m getting these lineups for AHv2.19p4:

--------------------------------------------------
German | vs | Western ....| Eastern
Panzer .| vs | M4(75/76*) | T34/76
Tiger ....| vs | Firefly   .......| T34/85**
---------.-----------------------------------------

* Using the M4 75s and 76s in a 2 to 1 ratio vs the Panzer
** Using a slight numbers advantage for the T34/85 over the Tiger

Anyone else care to comment, or offer clarifications?

Thanks to all who contributed their input. 

[Lusche]

--------------------------------------------------
German | vs | Western ....| Eastern
Panzer .| vs | M4(75/76*) | T34/76
Tiger ....| vs | Firefly   .......| T34/85**
---------.-----------------------------------------

* Using the M4 75s and 76s in a 2 to 1 ratio vs the Panzer

The M4 75 and 76 are quite different beasts when compared to the Panzer. The 75 is a much weaker gun, put the (75) at 1-1 to the panzer.

[Easyscor]

Are you saying that the M4/76 is too much vs the Panzer?

You can tell I'm not a GV guy, but I do listen to you guys.