Radiator shutoff valve for planes that had 2 radiators and supported it

[Ardy123]

Many airplanes such as some Spits and 109s had duel radiators were if one radiator was hit, the pilot could shut off the valve and prevent his coolant from leaking all out, giving one time to get back to base.

Although it is unclear if all 109s and spits that were intended  to have radiator shutoff valves had them, many did and in the case of the 109, even the manuals indicate that they did, even if they were to be installed after the initial plane was shipped. Also, at least one of the very few remaining 109s in existence today also it installed.

There is a whole thread around this for the 109. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,305654.0.html

My wish is to have this feature added to the 109s and spits(duel radiator) and any other plane which it applies too.

109s..
g2/g6/g15/k4

spits
Mk VIII, Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI

[Karnak]

I should have mentioned this in the other thread, but while I don't know about this for Bf109s, I know the Spitfires that had the feature could only operate on reduced throttle settings after losing a radiator.  It was basically to get them home rather than losing the plane and possibly the pilot.

I'll see if I can find the boost settings when I get a chance.

[MachFly]

Spitfires do not get their radiator damaged in AH2.  
I assume it is because no damage is much easier to model and makes me a lot happier.  


And BTW Spitfires also have two radiators.  

[Karnak]

One hit to either radiator in a Spitfire will drain all of your coolant.  I have taken radiator hits in the Spitfire.

My most memorable Spitfire radiator loss happened as I was dodging an Me262 while flying a Spitfire Mk XIV with a Yak-9 adding to the fun by staying just close enough to remain a threat, taking long range shots at me every so often.  At about 1200 yards the Yak-9 managed to connect with a cannon round (It sounded like a cannon hit and later the Yak driver told me he was only firing the cannon) putting a hole in my radiator.  That increased the urgency of getting on the ground, which in due course I managed to do.  The pilot of the Yak, which I had assumed was a Yak-9U because of how it was staying with me, the chatted me and said something like "You're so lucky.  I thought I had you for sure when I saw that 37mm round hit you."

[MachFly]

One hit to either radiator in a Spitfire will drain all of your coolant.  I have taken radiator hits in the Spitfire.

My most memorable Spitfire radiator loss happened as I was dodging an Me262 while flying a Spitfire Mk XIV with a Yak-9 adding to the fun by staying just close enough to remain a threat, taking long range shots at me every so often.  At about 1200 yards the Yak-9 managed to connect with a cannon round (It sounded like a cannon hit and later the Yak driver told me he was only firing the cannon) putting a hole in my radiator.  That increased the urgency of getting on the ground, which in due course I managed to do.  The pilot of the Yak, which I had assumed was a Yak-9U because of how it was staying with me, the chatted me and said something like "You're so lucky.  I thought I had you for sure when I saw that 37mm round hit you."

Don't know what to tell you, I been using Spitfire as my main plane for at least 4 years, I don't remember a single time when I lost the radiator.

When I take 109, pony, 38, or anything with a radiator, the radiator is one of the most common things which I lose.

[Karnak]

Perhaps the Spitfire's overly fragile wings hide radiator hits to a degree by coming off and making a radiator hit not apparent.

[MachFly]

Perhaps the Spitfire's overly fragile wings hide radiator hits to a degree by coming off and making a radiator hit not apparent.

I don't know. I don't loose my wings that often either, but that's just me. 

Perhaps we should go in DA, I'll keep it on auto pilot and you'll aim for the radiator.

[bustr]

1. Mr. Hitech was kind enough to release the Ta152H-1, P47M both having very limited production runs.

2. The Bf109K-4 October 1944 manual shows infact the two manual shutoff pulls are standard in the cockpit of the factory reference model. The item tag in the schematic has a note that they were not installed on the first release of Bf109K-4. How many Bf109K-4 were factory completed in the second release? Remember how few Ta152 and P47M were in the war.

3. If the Bf109K-4 at the last of the war were released with the shutoff valves&handles as standard equipment versus the retro fitting with kits that had been taking place since after the Bf109G series was released. Seems in the least the Bf109K-4 in game should be updated to a radiator shutoff for each of the two wing radiators.

Since the game seems to only model a healthy engine or a dead engine and no states in between other than our changing throttel or rpms. I'm not sure what the results of this would be. Hitech would possibly have to introduce an overheating stage for the DB605 for the 5 minutes of run home to base flying time you just bought by pushing the new game key.

And then what about new players who push both keys and burn up their engine? Not sure Hitech wants to introduce these kinds of engine management complexities.

[Babalonian]

The devil is in the details on this one, but I would really like to see this feature added to the proper aircraft without being unbalanced.  Perhaps disabling WEP when one is damaged and shut off.  But how long should we allow a 1-radiatored plane to linger on full (no-WEP) throttle and fly home before having to throttle back or face engine failure?  How will it be graphicly represented (curently, a single radiator hit is a solid stream of smoke that emits from your plane.  having the same visual may be confusing and misleading to many, as well as inacurate since the leaking radiator was shut off.).

[Ardy123]

The devil is in the details on this one, but I would really like to see this feature added to the proper aircraft without being unbalanced.  Perhaps disabling WEP when one is damaged and shut off.  But how long should we allow a 1-radiatored plane to linger on full (no-WEP) throttle and fly home before having to throttle back or face engine failure?  How will it be graphicly represented (curently, a single radiator hit is a solid stream of smoke that emits from your plane.  having the same visual may be confusing and misleading to many, as well as inacurate since the leaking radiator was shut off.).

My understand is that from what I've read is that they can be flown 'at a reduce throttle setting'. I'm not sure what that setting is though. It may be just, "As long as the needle isn't in the red".

[Krusty]

I'd love to see it.

It's been requested at least half a dozen times before, but it's a cool little "limp home with damage" factor (and I do love that -- most of my sorties end like that).

I might suggest that and arbitrary RPM/MAP limit be enforced once this kicks in.... That is to say "full throttle" jumps down to whatever the sustainable power settings are with only 1/2 of the radiators functioning. We don't have engine overheat, we don't have gradual failures and the like... So the workaround is to reduce what 100% throttle actually gives you under those circumstances, and WEP is disabled.

All for it!


P.S. I'd also like to see the radiator leaks originate from the wing that was hit!! Now any hit anywhere always leads to a radiator leak from the prop. We have gas trails that originate from individual tanks, I'd like to see radiator leaks do the same (that way you could look out your wing to see what side was damaged)

[Karnak]

I haven't found boost settings, but I did find my original source on page 312 of Spitfire: The History.

The MacLaren scheme showing the front and side grids in position.  These grids were made of bakelised linen with electro-deposited copped moulded between the sheets.  The grids were connected to the gunsight switch so that when a pilot was about to go into action, and there was the possibility of a radiator suffering damage, the protection scheme would operate.  If the radiators were damaged a red light showed in the cockpit indicating the grid had been pierced,  Solenid relay switches then operated valves which cut off coolant flow through the damaged radiator and switched it to the undamaged unit.

There are four photos on page 312 pertaining to the system as well.

On page 329:

Boscombe Down 3 June 1944. EN312. Coolant flow measurements with MacLaren radiator scheme. Measurements made with aircraft under normal conditions and with either radiator isolated by protection scheme. During isolation flow of coolant was reduced by half, each cylinder block receiving and equal amount.

[MarineUS]

 

[Hopper]

I'd love to see it.

It's been requested at least half a dozen times before, but it's a cool little "limp home with damage" factor (and I do love that -- most of my sorties end like that).

I might suggest that and arbitrary RPM/MAP limit be enforced once this kicks in.... That is to say "full throttle" jumps down to whatever the sustainable power settings are with only 1/2 of the radiators functioning. We don't have engine overheat, we don't have gradual failures and the like... So the workaround is to reduce what 100% throttle actually gives you under those circumstances, and WEP is disabled.

All for it!


P.S. I'd also like to see the radiator leaks originate from the wing that was hit!! Now any hit anywhere always leads to a radiator leak from the prop. We have gas trails that originate from individual tanks, I'd like to see radiator leaks do the same (that way you could look out your wing to see what side was damaged)

I wouldn't want the game to decide the throttle setting for me, in the k4 i'll be in a fight take a rad hit and fight until i am in danger of seizing the engine.  Hopefully by then i've forced a stall fight and I can continue the fight by cycling the engine on or off.  Last night in FSO I took a rad hit in the ki-161 killed 2 more bostons after my engine was hot enough to seize, (I don't know if ki's had dual radiators but my point is if the game only let me go to half throttle I wouldn't have been able to nose up enough to get the shot).

Give me the ability to fly the plane with the historical limitations of the aircraft and use it to its fullest without gamey limitations for the sake of easy coding!