If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?

[Bronk]

See Rule #4

[moot]

January 43, first delivery of 110's with Flak 18 BK 3.7

[Wmaker]

[Noir]

380mph + big gun = perked!

[Krusty]

January 43, first delivery of 110's with Flak 18 BK 3.7

Okay, let me go back and say I didn't think about what I was typing clearly. Had I looked it over I'm sure I would have instantly spotted the flaw, and I can see why you replied as such. You're right.

What I *meant* to say (my mistake) was that it didn't carry them operationally other than a small number in service tests.

This heavily armed Bf 110 variant was trialed both for gound attack duties on the Eastern Front and in daylight battles against USAAF bombing raids without enjoying any major success in either role! Evaluation involving several aircraft was carried by the Versuchskommando für Panzerkämpfung (anti-tank trials unit) at Rechlin and moving to Russia for field evaluation in April 1943. The evaluation was apparently not favourable for this version and it was then turned over to Erprobungskommando 25 for evaluation against USAAF bombers. The top speed was found to be only slightly higher than that of the B-17s and B-24s and lateral stability was poor which impared the aiming. A total of 43 G-3 and 107 G-2 airframes were scheduled for modification but only a handful have been confirmed as being accepted by ZG76 early in 1944. ("Messerschmitt Bf 110", Ron Mackay, Crowood, Page 121) With the advent of the USAAF long-range fighter escort in 1944 this weapons combination became obsolete over night as the Bf 110s now became the hunted rather than the hunter. A number of Bf 110s were equipped as here with a Flak 18 gun and W.Gr. mortars under the wings!

From Falke Eins
http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/01/bf-110-g-with-37mm-flak-18-cannon.html



EDIT: For those that skim, here's a key point: "A total of 43 G-3 and 107 G-2 airframes were scheduled for modification but only a handful have been confirmed as being accepted by ZG76 early in 1944."

[Pyro]

It's not verboten at all and I don't have a reason at this time not to include it as a loadout option.  I could be mistaken but I don't recall commenting on it.  I've commented on the Mosquito XVIII but that's a different case, and even then it was never taken off the table.

[gyrene81]

i'm kinda hoping the bk5 doesn't get added if the me410 makes it into the lineup.

[Krusty]

There are arguments for and against it. If you've tried to take out bombers with slow-firing guns (P-39s, Yak9Ts, basically) you know how bad it is to get a perfect aim with such a slow rate of fire. I think, personally, that the 2x Mk103 loadout would be even more lethal. I think for fun the multi 20mm loads would be best (strafing, general HOing hehehe). Once I was against the BK5 like you are, but over time I came to see it's probably not going to be a game breaking weapons system.

[33Vortex]

The Me410B-2/U2 top speed is listed at 388 mph with cruise at 325. Armed with 4xMG151/20 and 4xMG131 of which 2 were mounted in the barbettes.

The Me410B-2/U4 top speed is listed at 370 mph, cruise at 325 still. Armament identical except for the removal of two MG151/20 in favor of the Bk5.

Both types are powered by the DB603L and the B-2/U2 was a few mph faster than the B-2/R types, the R5 doing 380 and R3 386.

As a comparison, the Me410A-1 max speed was 375 mph and cruise 315, powered by the DB603A.


I'm unable to verify the above data so if anyone believe they have more accurate figures or access to original test data please correct as needed.


B-2 types forward armament:

R3 - MG151/20 x 2, MK103 x 2, MG131 x 2
R5 - MG151/20 x 6, MG131 x 2
U2 - MG151/20 x 4, MG131 x 2
U4 - MG151/20 x 2, MG131 x 2, Bk5


Personally I would think the R5 to be the most useful bomber killer but in AH who knows?

[icepac]

i'm kinda hoping the bk5 doesn't get added if the me410 makes it into the lineup.

The variant with the BK5 loadout is not nearly any sort of game changer much like the b25H wasn't.

In other sims, it is routinely passed over for 110g so I don't think it's presence would unbalance an arena.

It would be cool to see some variants of the JU88 added.

HTC would have to add two Ju88 base variants and use different loadouts to closely approximate almost the entire ju88 line.

[Krusty]

The Me410B-2/U2 top speed is listed at 388 mph with cruise at 325. Armed with 4xMG151/20 and 4xMG131 of which 2 were mounted in the barbettes.

The Me410B-2/U4 top speed is listed at 370 mph, cruise at 325 still. Armament identical except for the removal of two MG151/20 in favor of the Bk5.

Both types are powered by the DB603L and the B-2/U2 was a few mph faster than the B-2/R types, the R5 doing 380 and R3 386.

As a comparison, the Me410A-1 max speed was 375 mph and cruise 315, powered by the DB603A.


I'm unable to verify the above data so if anyone believe they have more accurate figures or access to original test data please correct as needed.

It's inaccurate. The 410A with DB603A engines had a top speed of 388mph (oft cited). The 410B had the same engines, and the same airframe. It was planned as a version that would utilize the DB603G (not L) but this engine was not built until AFTER the cancellation of the 410 program, so all the 410Bs had the exact same engine installed as the previous version, or in other words the DB603A. Some had the DB603Aa, which had a slightly elevated FTH but otherwise was very similar.

It's also not very cut and dried with the R4 U4 etc designations. These are often attributed after the fact and are not always trustworthy, especially if your reference says it used any engine other than a DB603A. That's the litmus test. If it says any other engine, keep looking.


P.S. The internal gunpods removed only 2km/h because they were just that -- internal. Same way the outboard 30mm on a Fw190A8 only loses 1 mph of top speed.

[gyrene81]

i'm finding a lot of referencing to the me-410b models using the db603g engines, not the db603l.

The variant with the BK5 loadout is not nearly any sort of game changer much like the b25H wasn't.

In other sims, it is routinely passed over for 110g.

honestly icepac, where did i say anything about "game changer"? from what i've been able to find, the bk5 caused so many issues it was replaced by twin mk103s before the 410b series even went production.

[Volron]

The 50mm wouldn't be used for just buff hunting though, as we all know.  I, personally, would use it to kill tanks as well.  If you can do it with the Yak 9T's 37mm gun, you should be able to do it with the 410's 50mm gun.  At the very least (for me anyways), it would be fun to try and you can be guaranteed that it will kill M3's, M8's and M18's nicely.

[icepac]

That might depend on whether the shell is AP or HE modeling.

[Krusty]

Even the HE might be able to break through thinner upper decking on many tanks. Like how the 75mm on B-25H can do so sometimes.