Author Topic: Training Film with pilot's commentary  (Read 1622 times)

Offline mechanic

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Training Film with pilot's commentary
« on: January 07, 2013, 07:37:03 AM »
Hey all. Just a simple 1 on 1 fight between a 109g6 and a spitfire mkVIII. I have tried to avoid the technical explanations and simply explain what is going on from the 109 pilot's view. I hope this will give some insight into how the fight is drawn out in the pilot's mind as it is happening. Please feel free to ask any questions about the more technical side of this film. Also please feel free to explain those things too if you can see them. Every little bit may help someone have that 'click' moment and boost their ability up a notch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdwLKYTHbwE&feature=youtu.be

And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Randy1

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 08:02:15 AM »
I learned a lot from that.  Kind of inspiring.

Offline lambo31

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 08:08:23 AM »
Good fight Bat, and good job on the commentary. <S>

 Lambo
Ingame ID: Lambo

Offline ink

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 08:17:43 AM »
I never watched the film you posted in "is this a good fight" thread I figure just bait for defending middy....I am assuming this is that same film.....if so....no not a good fight......spit was very predictable....



I do however like the premise of this thread....and the commentary was good.....new guys can learn a lot from watching films done like this....

I think if you added a bit more technical stuff....I know you said it wasn't about that...but you do touch on it when describing flap and throttle work.....

so maybe a mention of speeds and what speed you are doing over the top.....stuff like that.....

Offline Brakechk

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 09:04:25 AM »
Been tryin to learn the 109K and this helps quite a bit.  I too would like a little more technical information like Ink suggested.   

It seems like there are three issues for me at least in learning that plane.  First is simple control....the 109s aren't near as friendly as the Ki-84 I am more used to at slow speeds.  Especially with regard to throttle usage to counter torque effects.  Second utilizing strengths vs weaknesses or how and what to plan in the middle of a fight for getting yourself into the position for the shot.  Most of what I am doing in the fight is 75% reaction and 25% planning.  So I can sometimes see a half a turn into the future.  This is mainly because I still don't understand the plane.  When I played before I stayed in the Ki-84 exclusively for a long time.  I got to where I understood the plane and could see situations developing and knew where it was going and what I would be trying to do to counter the situation that I usually knew was going to happen.  This was because I understood what that plane could and couldn't do.  I knew how fast, how much flap, vertical and throttle.  I knew what I would be doing or want to be doing in 2 or 3 turns and could move the fight in that direction. 

These first two are the areas I would really like to see explained in films.  The third area is gunnery.  In the Ki-84 I found gunnery to be a simple learning curve but really kind of easy.  This plane and it's 30mm is a different animal.  I tend to miss those fight ending shots alot...reset and hope for another chance.

I learned the Ki by sticking with it (every sorti), watching films and dueling.  I remember really working alot of this out in the DA with the Ki.  Unfortunately the current DA is not the best for this kind of learning...it's like a little mini MA where most players seem to be more concerned with landing kills and flying fast planes for the pick.  This is great for SA but its not that great for really learning the plane.  This to me is more for after you learn the plane.  I still go there on occasion but it gets frustrating having the mustangs, temps, 4-Hogs etc run away to a crowd of buddies so they can turn around and pick then chest bump each other on their mad skillz.  What's really frustrating is that I have had no luck getting anyone to 1 v 1 at another base so I can figure out some tactics and control.  Is there a better time of day for this stuff?   

So....anyone that wants a bunch of easy kills and a good laugh sometime in the DA, I could use a little DA time   :).

Thanks for the film and comments  :aok
Brakechk/Zaphod

Offline ink

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 09:16:35 AM »
Been tryin to learn the 109K and this helps quite a bit.  I too would like a little more technical information like Ink suggested.   

It seems like there are three issues for me at least in learning that plane.  First is simple control....the 109s aren't near as friendly as the Ki-84 I am more used to at slow speeds.  Especially with regard to throttle usage to counter torque effects.  Second utilizing strengths vs weaknesses or how and what to plan in the middle of a fight for getting yourself into the position for the shot.  Most of what I am doing in the fight is 75% reaction and 25% planning.  So I can sometimes see a half a turn into the future.  This is mainly because I still don't understand the plane.  When I played before I stayed in the Ki-84 exclusively for a long time.  I got to where I understood the plane and could see situations developing and knew where it was going and what I would be trying to do to counter the situation that I usually knew was going to happen.  This was because I understood what that plane could and couldn't do.  I knew how fast, how much flap, vertical and throttle.  I knew what I would be doing or want to be doing in 2 or 3 turns and could move the fight in that direction. 

These first two are the areas I would really like to see explained in films.  The third area is gunnery.  In the Ki-84 I found gunnery to be a simple learning curve but really kind of easy.  This plane and it's 30mm is a different animal.  I tend to miss those fight ending shots alot...reset and hope for another chance.

I learned the Ki by sticking with it (every sorti), watching films and dueling.  I remember really working alot of this out in the DA with the Ki.  Unfortunately the current DA is not the best for this kind of learning...it's like a little mini MA where most players seem to be more concerned with landing kills and flying fast planes for the pick.  This is great for SA but its not that great for really learning the plane.  This to me is more for after you learn the plane.  I still go there on occasion but it gets frustrating having the mustangs, temps, 4-Hogs etc run away to a crowd of buddies so they can turn around and pick then chest bump each other on their mad skillz.  What's really frustrating is that I have had no luck getting anyone to 1 v 1 at another base so I can figure out some tactics and control.  Is there a better time of day for this stuff?   

So....anyone that wants a bunch of easy kills and a good laugh sometime in the DA, I could use a little DA time   :).

Thanks for the film and comments  :aok


I am no trainer by any means...but  anytime you see me online JETSOM ingame....let me know I will go to DA with ya......although honestly for what you want TA is a better place....dont have to worry about rerolling, you can get a lot more done that way.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 10:27:38 AM »
Ink, Some of us have not reached your level of ability that must make a seven minute fight boring and predictable. For me this fight was exciting and challenging. You must appreciate that having not reached such a high level of ability that this kind of fight is no longer fun is the position of a vast majority of players in the MA. For most AHers, this fight would be a great experience.


Brakechk, It is hard for me to answer a lot of those questions because when I am flying I very rarely check my dials and gauges aside from on takeoff/landing. I can of course tell you speeds and whatnot from the film if you think it would help. If you send me some time stamps from the film ie: 'what speed were you going from 2:05-2:25?' then I can definitely answer that way. There are quite a few real experts in 109s who may also be able to help you out. Most of what you are interested in learning is the type of thing that only practice can change. Spend all your time in a 109 and don't be afraid to get down and dirty in the fights and you will make it all second nature. there is no time to read gauges in a fight like this, you must 'feel' it all.   

I would be happy to go to the DA with you sometime. If you see me in game just ask. The best way to get a DA date is to ask in the MA. Most of the DA population is there for the furball lake. Also definitely take up Ink on his offer for some duels. He is a great fighter and definitely someone that will help teach you about down and dirty fighting with no messing around.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline ink

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 10:48:15 AM »
Ink, Some of us have not reached your level of ability that must make a seven minute fight boring and predictable. For me this fight was exciting and challenging. You must appreciate that having not reached such a high level of ability that this kind of fight is no longer fun is the position of a vast majority of players in the MA. For most AHers, this fight would be a great experience.


Brakechk, It is hard for me to answer a lot of those questions because when I am flying I very rarely check my dials and gauges aside from on takeoff/landing. I can of course tell you speeds and whatnot from the film if you think it would help. If you send me some time stamps from the film ie: 'what speed were you going from 2:05-2:25?' then I can definitely answer that way. There are quite a few real experts in 109s who may also be able to help you out. Most of what you are interested in learning is the type of thing that only practice can change. Spend all your time in a 109 and don't be afraid to get down and dirty in the fights and you will make it all second nature. there is no time to read gauges in a fight like this, you must 'feel' it all.   

I would be happy to go to the DA with you sometime. If you see me in game just ask. The best way to get a DA date is to ask in the MA. Most of the DA population is there for the furball lake. Also definitely take up Ink on his offer for some duels. He is a great fighter and definitely someone that will help teach you about down and dirty fighting with no messing around.

I smell sarcasm.......

which is fine......

I wont retort with same....ill just say that the training films are cool and will help others that are new....or more accustomed to the BnZ style of fighting. :aok



Offline mechanic

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 10:51:07 AM »
No sarcasm. If you don't think that was a good fight you must have way higher expectations than most players. This is about help and training in here.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline ink

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 10:58:34 AM »
No sarcasm. If you don't think that was a good fight you must have way higher expectations than most players. This is about help and training in here.

carry on :aok

Offline TheBug

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 11:05:37 AM »
Very cool, will definitely be checking these when I get home.

Thanks Bat.  :salute
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
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Offline Brakechk

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 12:18:45 PM »
I will most definately take you up on that Ink and Bat.  Thanks guys :).

I'm not lookin for specific speeds either....I think I explained that wrong.  I never check dial ect either..no time...I go by feel mostly (mushyness etc).  I was looking for more info like...flaps in here (which you can hear I think) and power on or off here because of "X".  It seems to me that the 109's will pull around turns and thru loops just on engine power vs turn rate/radius.  So I tend to use that when possible but I'm still learning. 

That's prob clear as mud lol.

I definately believe just throwing caution to the wind and scrapping it out is a fantastic way to learn.  Dueling with some advice is a huge help for me too.  TA or DA whichever you all feels is best is fine with me.

Anyway I'll check next time im on and give you all a PM if I see ya.  Thanks for any help fellas :).

Oh ingame Cpid is "ZAPHOD" 
Brakechk/Zaphod

Offline mechanic

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 12:34:49 PM »
ahh didnt notice your sig, welcome back Zap if you're the same zaphod from years back  :)
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Brakechk

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 12:37:49 PM »
ahh didnt notice your sig, welcome back Zap if you're the same zaphod from years back  :)

I am...thanks bat.  Still need help though!
Brakechk/Zaphod

Offline Nurminen

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Re: Training Film with pilot's commentary
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 02:37:15 PM »
Hey all. Just a simple 1 on 1 fight between a 109g6 and a spitfire mkVIII. I have tried to avoid the technical explanations and simply explain what is going on from the 109 pilot's view. I hope this will give some insight into how the fight is drawn out in the pilot's mind as it is happening. Please feel free to ask any questions about the more technical side of this film. Also please feel free to explain those things too if you can see them. Every little bit may help someone have that 'click' moment and boost their ability up a notch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdwLKYTHbwE&feature=youtu.be



 :salute both.