Vehicle dar bar

[bozon]

Abstract:
Add dar bar that indicates the number of GV in the sector.

Why:
Currently we have no idea how many vehicles are in a sector. From the air war, we learned as players the importance of the dar bar in finding the fights. The dar bar represents the general, imprecise, cumulative intelligence that is tracked by HQ. While GVs are not picked up by radar, they are tracked by aerial & ground observations, partrols, electronic intelligence, etc.

In a real war, HQ has some idea where the enemy is, though often not pinpoint position. HQ can then send troops and air support to the general area and let the local commanders pinpoint the enemy positions and engage. Therefore a dot radar will be inadequate, but a dar bar on the other hand can represent the general information about ground movements, just as it works for planes. The base is flashing when GVs come near, which represents that "somebody" virtual has seen them and the intelligence of how many of them are around is available somewhere.

Gameplay considerations:
Often as players we are looking for a ground war, but cannot find it, unless we go from one flashing base to another, spawn and search. When a base is flashing, we have no idea if it is flashing because of that one P51 that is coming to pork the ords, or because of the 50 vehicles that are sitting around its perimeter. We need this rough information.

Suggested implementation:
A thin bar at the upper left corner of the sector on top of the current dar bar. The vehicle bar can be much thinner, 1/4 of the plane bar. This will make it easy to differentiate the two even when they occupy the same corner (this is why the vehicle bar need to be on top, not to be blocked by the thicker plane bar). Putting them on top of each other minimizes the added clutter on the map.

[HawkerMKII]

No....dar bar not working for a/c right now, need it fixed before new stuff added

[vREAPER]

Interesting idea but there is one big flaw. If you try to sneak a base with GV's how can you make it so they can "drive under the radar". Planes can fly NOE, what could GV's do? I know people wouldn't like the idea of taking the ability to not be seen with GV's. Thats the only problem I have with it.

[hammer]

Makes a lot of sense. Just as we say the dar bar represents intelligence from other sources (reports from civilians, troops on the ground, etc), these same sources would identify armored vehicles on the ground just as easily. I would venture to say there would generally be a bit more precise information on vehicle locations due to the speed (or lack of speed) of GVs. We would probably get a general idea of at least what quadrant or which direction the reports were coming from.

Regards,

Hammer

[bozon]

Interesting idea but there is one big flaw. If you try to sneak a base with GV's how can you make it so they can "drive under the radar". Planes can fly NOE, what could GV's do? I know people wouldn't like the idea of taking the ability to not be seen with GV's. Thats the only problem I have with it.

It is an important question, though I do not think that it is a big flaw at all. It has been a long time since the last time I saw an NOE capture raid. NOE ord/radar/troops porking yes, but not capture.

The difference from GVs is that GVs are invisible till very short range, unless the Stork is flying around. On the other hand, they spawn in a well known location. So how about this as a compromise:
A GV spawns with a clock counter of X minutes (TBD, could be arena parameter). The vehicle will not be counted in the dar bar till the clock expires.

This will give a GV assault-wave a head start of X minutes before the GV bar starts to build up. In analogy to R/L, regular army intel is much slower than the airforce centralized ground control centers (GCC), and information takes longer to reach the units. In analogy to how NOE works for an air raid, the air raid typically exposes itself about 5-10 miles from the base when climbing for the attack, giving a short notice for the defenders to scramble.

Usually however, the GV battle is slow and static. In such a prolonged, kill -> get killed -> respawn -> repeat situation, the GV bar will represent the current ground situation. When a player is looking for a GV fight, he can find it.

[Reaper90]

The tool to gather the info that a "vehicle dar" would show is already in-game....




-1 to another dar bar. Get in a plane and recon the area.

[hammer]

The tool to gather the info that a "vehicle dar" would show is already in-game....


(Image removed from quote.)

-1 to another dar bar. Get in a plane and recon the area.

But there has to be something that causes you to use it. I don't think there's a cadre of storch pilots flying around every front field looking for GVs and, as bozon pointed out, there should be some way to differentiate whether the base is flashing from vehicle or air activity.

Regards,

Hammer

[Reaper90]

But there has to be something that causes you to use it. I don't think there's a cadre of storch pilots flying around every front field looking for GVs and, as bozon pointed out, there should be some way to differentiate whether the base is flashing from vehicle or air activity.

If there is dar in the sector and the base is flashing, con is likely an aircraft.

If there is no dar in the sector and the base is flashing, con is likely a GV.



And the Storch is a fun plane... one shouldn't need some silly dar bar to have a reason to fly it once in a while! 

[hammer]

If there is dar in the sector and the base is flashing, con is likely an aircraft.

If there is no dar in the sector and the base is flashing, con is likely a GV.

Is that how that works? So, if there is dar in the sector and the base is flashing, there is no GV? How about a plane below radar but no GV? What does the dar bar show then? Bozon's idea would specifically address these situations and allow you to know there was a GV along with that single plane on radar or that it was probably a NOE raid coming into the base because no GVs had been identified by the multitude of other available intelligence on the battlefield.

Regards,

Hammer

[Reaper90]

notice I said "likely."

I like it like it is.... you have warning that there is an enemy approaching because your base flashes.... it's up to you to discover the cause. Intel mah have said "tanks approaching" but how do you know how many there are?

Was there radar that detected and counted GVs in WWII? 

[Chalenge]

Dar bar for GVs would only attract mudhens and I suspect that is exactly what this post is about.

[bozon]

The tool to gather the info that a "vehicle dar" would show is already in-game....

-1 to another dar bar. Get in a plane and recon the area.

That means go into every base that is flashing, fly around with the stork, find out that there are only enemy planes around to make it flash. Land. Move to another base. No thank you, that is a waste of my precious playing time.

I like it like it is.... you have warning that there is an enemy approaching because your base flashes.... it's up to you to discover the cause. Intel mah have said "tanks approaching" but how do you know how many there are?

You like it as it is, I like it less. This is the Wishilist forum - I clicked and made a wish upon a shooting sta... oh wait, that was a P38 lawn darting into the ords bunker.

Was there radar that detected and counted GVs in WWII? 

Yes, it was installed in two locations in soldiers heads. Once enemy was detected, the human radars were able to count till they ran out of fingers. The information was transmitted in a wireless methods using a blanket and a bonfire. Later models discovered that they can count twice as many tanks when not wearing shoes.
See? I can pretend to be an idiot too.

Dar bar for GVs would only attract mudhens and I suspect that is exactly what this post is about.

What are mudhens? Like mad cows but with feathers?

[Chalenge]

What are mudhens? Like mad cows but with feathers?

Mudhens are birds that like to lay their eggs in the mud. 

[Reaper90]

Yes, it was installed in two locations in soldiers heads. Once enemy was detected, the human radars were able to count till they ran out of fingers. The information was transmitted in a wireless methods using a blanket and a bonfire. Later models discovered that they can count twice as many tanks when not wearing shoes.
See? I can pretend to be an idiot too.

 

Touchy, aren't we?

I understand what you're saying.

You want more "intel."

I'll +1 this wish.

Maybe we can go even further and have the dar tell us in the tower the type of plane or GV, it's alt and heading, and the name and rank of the pilot or driver, too.

 

[waystin2]

No.