Enhanced Engine Sounds

[Fruda]

I think I requested this one ages ago, but why not request it again?

How about advanced engine sound coding, like in Microsoft's FS series? Multiple sample points (let's say four; rpm1, rpm2, rpm3, rpm4...) for engines so they sound nice and smooth from idle to WEP, rather than just using a speed/slow effect to alter the single Eng sound.

[5PointOh]

+1, and I'd also like to a see a seperate sound for superchargers and turbochargers that change pitch at various speeds and stages.

[gyrene81]

i'd like to see how that would be possible myself. i had an hd sound capture from the cockpit of a 109g6 (from start up to in the air fly around) that i futzed with trying to get it to work properly within ah. ended up having to dissect it and only use a small piece. the end result sounded very close to the sound capture.

[olds442]

I would just like to start with correct 3D sounds.

[Fruda]

i'd like to see how that would be possible myself. i had an hd sound capture from the cockpit of a 109g6 (from start up to in the air fly around) that i futzed with trying to get it to work properly within ah. ended up having to dissect it and only use a small piece. the end result sounded very close to the sound capture.

It would seem to require some additional programming and a .cfg file for each aircraft that sets each engine sound at a specific RPM level. Same goes for propeller pitch.

[Fruda]

I would just like to start with correct 3D sounds.

That would definitely come first.

[gyrene81]

It would seem to require some additional programming and a .cfg file for each aircraft that sets each engine sound at a specific RPM level. Same goes for propeller pitch.

it's the synchronizaton process that i have to wonder about. 

[Fruda]

it's the synchronizaton process that i have to wonder about. 

Sync (such as between internal and external) wouldn't really matter that much. Flight Sim internal/external sounds are never the same length, but sync doesn't matter because you can't hear both at the same time.

Syncing the various RPM levels is a different story, thus the .cfg file.

[Chalenge]

FS does a lot of things that AH doesn't, like using stereo sounds and DX11 (or maybe it stopped around DX10). How would you handle systems that are not up to it?

Everything you want to do can already be done with mono sounds. Ranger hit upon it years ago, but he only used it in limited cases.

One of my squad members asked about this tonight when he heard a different sound (from one of my sounds) from the cockpit as he does the tower. I explained that an airplane makes several different sounds depending on your position relative to the source, or impulse. An engine from inside the cowling is one sound, the exhaust is different, as is the propeller noise, the sound you hear from the cockpit comes from audio bouncing around internally, and the sound you hear from outside comes mostly from the airframe depending on your distance and relative velocities. So, to make a high quality sound file that represents the particular aircraft you have in mind you need to mix a few sounds together and then, if you do it right, it will always sound correct. The problem is that mixing can also cause undesirable results, so relative waveform positions need to be carefully considered, but that's what mixing is all about! Sometimes you have to stretch (+ or -) one track in order to get it to properly mix with another.

What you are asking for is much easier, I'll give you that. Maybe that's what Hitech was talking about when he mentioned the coming changes. I thought he was onto something else.

[Fruda]

To do everything FS does would probably alienate much of the subscriber base, considering the system specifications upgrades that would be necessary. A dream, but a distant one.

Exactly my point! It would require mixing the engine sounds themselves (whatever RPM level is used) plus the sound the airframe itself is making as it cuts through the air, not to mention the propeller and doppler effects. Of course, the best place to start is with something simple: different sources used for internal and external sounds, rather than just transposing a single set of sounds globally. Think of it like this: EngI, EngstartI, and EngoffI for internal, and EngX, EngstartX, and EngoffX for external. It wouldn't be noticed so much in flight (since the outrageous volume inside the cockpit virtually negates the ability to hear other aircraft unless there are very many); however, it would make a big difference on the runway and for GV drivers. One might say it's "unnecessary" variety, but the added realism would certainly add to the experience.

And another thing the .cfg file would fix? The issue with a lot of these aircraft transposing Eng sound files to make them much lower/slower than the raw WAVs. I found a way around this by transposing the vast majority by +5 semitones (a few aircraft need more than this to sound correct), but it creates a problem with other aircraft sounding like bees.

[Chalenge]

I settled on a mix of several sounds for each engine.

Engine at 60-70% power.
Propeller noise (note there is a big difference between two, three, four, and five blades)
Exhaust (this can be procedural if you know the stack tone)
Cockpit ambient at 60-70%
Airframe (a recording of the aircraft at 3/4 mile constant distance and constant speed will work)
Radiator flow

Once you have the complete collection the mix is still difficult to accomplish if you have been working on sounds for hours on end.

Which of these would you say is the most important to get right?

[Zacherof]

+1, and I'd also like to a see a seperate sound for superchargers and turbochargers that change pitch at various speeds and stages.

I think some soundpacks have this.

[Fruda]

I settled on a mix of several sounds for each engine.

Engine at 60-70% power.
Propeller noise (note there is a big difference between two, three, four, and five blades)
Exhaust (this can be procedural if you know the stack tone)
Cockpit ambient at 60-70%
Airframe (a recording of the aircraft at 3/4 mile constant distance and constant speed will work)
Radiator flow

Once you have the complete collection the mix is still difficult to accomplish if you have been working on sounds for hours on end.

Which of these would you say is the most important to get right?

For that particular mix, I'd say it's most important to mix all of the sounds properly so that they become a smooth sound file.

However, there's such a big difference between hearing one of these aircraft from the outside and right inside the cockpit, that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to mix both of the source sounds together. Granted, AH has a very limited sound engine, so it's pick and choose. That's why I'm offering a choice with my sound packs, so you can decide whether you'd rather hear external or internal sounds. Unfortunate.

Further still, in the hopes of AH updating the sound engine, my packs are also going to include full engine runs (at four RPM intervals), so I'll leave it up to the individual players to mix them together if they wish. I'm also including airframe recordings so they can either be used as the "wind" sound, or to be mixed with the "eng" files.

[Chalenge]

One of the reasons it has taken me years to create my sound pack was that I was mixing from the very beginning. It is also why I am looking forward to the new sound changes Hitech mentioned recently (a few months back). I would like to see the position of the P-38 supercharger offset from the engine, and the P-47 and other planes too.

You've never wondered why the Merlin in the P-51 sounds nothing like the Merlin in the Spitfires? or Lancaster? or Mosquito? I know you have, well there you have a way to fix them all.

[Fruda]

In flight, they sound very different because of the airframe. On the ground, well, they really sound the same when they're not moving.