Author Topic: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s  (Read 6143 times)

Offline Slade

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1848
Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« on: February 18, 2014, 09:36:34 AM »
Guys,

I am adding a page to detail facts concerning: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s

http://www.michael-elliott.com/wikis/ww2planes/index.php?n=Site.Score

Please let me know if you have any factual data points that you feel should be added.  What matters is that it is accurate more than "my" opinion of this.


Thanks,

Slade  :salute
-- Flying as X15 --

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2014, 11:57:31 AM »
 :salute
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Dragon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7055
      • AH JUGS
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2014, 12:01:17 PM »
Quote
Obviously the moment you see someone touting their stats as an indicator of skill you know you may be dealing with a fool


Priceless
SWchef  Lieutenant Colonel  Squadron Training Officer  125th Spartan Warriors

Offline LCADolby

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7480
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2014, 12:06:02 PM »

Priceless

:)  :aok

Ranking/Score means nothing, but it's nice when I've fought my pants off in the MA and found myself with decent ranking.
JG5 "Eismeer"
YouTube+Twitch - 20Dolby10

MW148 LW301
"BE a man and shoot me in the back" - pez

Offline wpeters

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1647
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 12:11:53 PM »
Guys,

I am adding a page to detail facts concerning: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s

http://www.michael-elliott.com/wikis/ww2planes/index.php?n=Site.Score

Please let me know if you have any factual data points that you feel should be added.  What matters is that it is accurate more than "my" opinion of this.


Thanks,

Slade  :salute


Where you playing BF4 Last night
LtCondor
          The Damned
Fighter pilots are either high, or in the process of getting high.🙊
The difference between Dweebs and non dweebs... Dweebs have kills

Offline Slade

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1848
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 12:17:59 PM »
Quote
Where you playing BF4 Last night

It is startling how many players that have been in this game for months and years that still cling to Score\Stats\Rank as an indicator of skill.  :eek:

I have started the posted page to detail why that is a fallacy.

As stated on the page, stats are really useful for personal growth.


EDIT: I like the idea proposed to post pilots rank in differing areas (pilot total kills, pilots total kills in each given plane etc.).  That is what it is.  Cool in and of itself.  Not really the holy grail of determining pilot skill but fun to know.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:05:52 PM by Slade »
-- Flying as X15 --

Offline TopGear

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 118
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 01:02:39 PM »
I thought I heard that ending sortie before taking off didn't count as a sortie?

That said, some people really cling to their stars as a measure of awesomeness.  One guy on range vox yelled awhile back "gd it!! If you see a player with 2 stars beside his name ask for help, you should help him!!"   It was pretty funny.

Offline Gman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 01:10:32 PM »
Funny stuff Slade, got a laugh from me this morning, nice link/writeup for some AH humor.



Seriously, rank IMO means little, but using the scoring stats in game in AH,  you can gleam a little info regarding an unknown guy IMO from some of his stats, so long as it's not just over an hour or two, but a little bit of time into the month, again IMO.

Kills/Death on its own means the least IMO, as a decent pilot at BnZ or just having good SA can get astronomically high k/d ratios by just being an opportunist, without really great ACM skills, and just by floating around at higher alts and zapping guys already in fights (3rd man in like hockey fights), and never putting himself in a position where he may lose - Red Baron mentality.  These guys are detectable by having very low kills/time, but very high kills/death - that sort of stat combination pilot I'll usually see by looking straight up while in the game - yep, there he is at 20k or so just tooling around being as patient as a rock.  

Then there is the pilot with high kill per time, but low kill per death - usually cares the least about score/stats, has decent accuracy/shooting stats, but lower situational awareness and/or defensive skills - gets a lot of kills, but rarely survives himself.  Usually the most likely targets for the next and last type of pilot IMO ....

High kill/time and high kill/death : Kill/Time IMO gives a little more information, as a really high kills/hour combined with a decent or high kill/death shows that the kills per death aren't attained by just picking off guys from higher altitude or higher numbers, as getting a lot of kills every flight or hour of flight shows the pilot is usually in the thick of it, under 10k and in a lot of multi aircraft fights.  This is the guy to watch out for IMO, high kill/time combined with high kill/death, a pilot with both high skill set and aggression, but also has good defensive abilities and very high SA.



So, for me personally, when I check and see a pilot has a k/d of 3 or higher and a k/t of say 5 or 6 or higher, I usually expect him to be pretty proficient at ACM, and will take note of what he's flying if he kills me or I him, and be on the watch out SA wise for his aircraft in the area I'm fighting in.  I'll also look at the accuracy statistics as well, and if that's in the higher range, it's also a good indicator of a good shot or pilot with a lot of shooting experience and skill.

Again, this is all just IMO, and what I do when I look at the "score" data in game - I completely ignore "rank", but that's just me.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:20:55 PM by Gman »

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 01:11:19 PM »
I thought I heard that ending sortie before taking off didn't count as a sortie?

If you spawn and end the sortie before taking off, it counts as a successful landing.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline wpeters

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1647
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 03:11:18 PM »
It is startling how many players that have been in this game for months and years that still cling to Score\Stats\Rank as an indicator of skill.  :eek:

I have started the posted page to detail why that is a fallacy.

As stated on the page, stats are really useful for personal growth.


EDIT: I like the idea proposed to post pilots rank in differing areas (pilot total kills, pilots total kills in each given plane etc.).  That is what it is.  Cool in and of itself.  Not really the holy grail of determining pilot skill but fun to know.


LOL I mean were you playing Battle Field last night.  Kept getting nailed in my helicopter by a guy named Slade
LtCondor
          The Damned
Fighter pilots are either high, or in the process of getting high.🙊
The difference between Dweebs and non dweebs... Dweebs have kills

Offline lerxst

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 09:35:29 PM »
I myself just fell into that misperception! i followed a set of B25's over the water for a little while,i then relized after looking at the rooster in MW that there was only one bish playing,he had no stats no rank ,no score!! EASY i said to myself as i worked closer to him in a f6f i made quick work of him.the next go around however was a much different story. this time he got all sort of alt after taking off on B17's was aloft at some 30k i got up to him in a Bf109G6 just barely,a couple shots from his guns...down i go:( .Last try at him i figured ill take a c.205 i chased him just about all the way up to 31k,struggling to catch up or even get guns on him,the plane was no match either speed,or alt so he let off a few bursts,and then i realized he knows what hes doing i just wasted 45 mins of my time chasing him for nothing! lesson learned,then we talked for awhile and explained to me all that i had done wrong trying to chase him in a single prop fighter and in bombers once you learn what your doing you can pretty much outrun any prop fighter!! SOO MUCH STILL TO LEARN :airplane:

Offline BaldEagl

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10791
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 11:58:05 PM »
Funny stuff Slade, got a laugh from me this morning, nice link/writeup for some AH humor.



Seriously, rank IMO means little, but using the scoring stats in game in AH,  you can gleam a little info regarding an unknown guy IMO from some of his stats, so long as it's not just over an hour or two, but a little bit of time into the month, again IMO.

Kills/Death on its own means the least IMO, as a decent pilot at BnZ or just having good SA can get astronomically high k/d ratios by just being an opportunist, without really great ACM skills, and just by floating around at higher alts and zapping guys already in fights (3rd man in like hockey fights), and never putting himself in a position where he may lose - Red Baron mentality.  These guys are detectable by having very low kills/time, but very high kills/death - that sort of stat combination pilot I'll usually see by looking straight up while in the game - yep, there he is at 20k or so just tooling around being as patient as a rock.  

Then there is the pilot with high kill per time, but low kill per death - usually cares the least about score/stats, has decent accuracy/shooting stats, but lower situational awareness and/or defensive skills - gets a lot of kills, but rarely survives himself.  Usually the most likely targets for the next and last type of pilot IMO ....

High kill/time and high kill/death : Kill/Time IMO gives a little more information, as a really high kills/hour combined with a decent or high kill/death shows that the kills per death aren't attained by just picking off guys from higher altitude or higher numbers, as getting a lot of kills every flight or hour of flight shows the pilot is usually in the thick of it, under 10k and in a lot of multi aircraft fights.  This is the guy to watch out for IMO, high kill/time combined with high kill/death, a pilot with both high skill set and aggression, but also has good defensive abilities and very high SA.



So, for me personally, when I check and see a pilot has a k/d of 3 or higher and a k/t of say 5 or 6 or higher, I usually expect him to be pretty proficient at ACM, and will take note of what he's flying if he kills me or I him, and be on the watch out SA wise for his aircraft in the area I'm fighting in.  I'll also look at the accuracy statistics as well, and if that's in the higher range, it's also a good indicator of a good shot or pilot with a lot of shooting experience and skill.

Again, this is all just IMO, and what I do when I look at the "score" data in game - I completely ignore "rank", but that's just me.

Nonsense.  I flew an hour one night just to find a fight and it ended up being one of only a few sorties of the camp.  Other camps I'm continually flying into 5, 10 or more on one's just hoping to stay alive for a while.  Very few kills vs flight time to get to the fight yet I can usually stay alive for several minutes outflying multiples.

I don't think you can tell diddly squat about anything by looking at any of the scores or stats.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline BluBerry

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1937
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 12:16:22 AM »

I don't think you can tell diddly squat about anything by looking at any of the scores or stats.

I agree, I constantly beat people with much better scores then I have and get beaten by guys with worse then me. Score is the worst way to judge your opponent.

Offline Debrody

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4487
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 04:20:19 AM »
I don't think you can tell diddly squat about anything by looking at any of the scores or stats.
Stats tell everything about the style of the said person. Not the single values, but the way they relate to teach other.
AoM
City of ice

Offline Gman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
Re: Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2014, 07:23:23 AM »
Quote
Not the single values, but the way they relate to teach other.
This is exactly what I mean - how two or three of the most important stats interrelate to give an overall picture of how a pilot flies, and how dangerous he is in either ACM or BnZ, or both in some occasions. 

Like I said, it's just a guideline, and there are always exceptions, lots of them.  I didn't say that if you see a guy with terrible stats (not score/rank, but STATS like k/d and k/t) that he may not be a great fight.  Not everyone even fits into the stats/idea I describe.

What I do maintain is that if you see a pilot's stats that have a combination of high kill/death, high kill/time, and perhaps high accuracy as well, THAT pilot will be someone to watch for, and will typically be a good ACM fighter.  It's very hard to get both a high k/t and high k/d simultaneously - it's easy to get either alone, IMO, but hard to combine both, as in order to get a lot of kills per hour, you can't run or pick much, yet to have a high k/d with that, you have to also survive those fights you don't run from, nor can you float around at 25k looking to pick guys, as your kill/time will plummet.  

That's my only point really that I will say is usually accurate with say 3/4 of the guys I check stats on - if their kill/time and kill/death are both high, they are usually a Bruv/Fester/Grizz/etc/etc/etc type pilot, good at absolutely everything, and in particular ACM.

Generally what I'm saying is that if I check a guys stats in game, and he has a really high kill/death, but low everything else, he's a good BnZ'er and usually found overhead somewhere when not diving down guns blazing - again GENERALLY.  When I see high kill/time but low kill/death, the pilot is usually a scrapper, probably decent ACM, but not a survivor, and either doesn't care about stats at all, or if he does, he bites off more than he can chew in terms of fighting many v one type fights on the short end of the stick.  When I see combined high kill/death and high kill/time - again, it's usually a name I know already, like Groovy Bruvy, and many many others.

Check the stats yourself, Bruv is always in double digits for both k/d and k/t, Latrobe is always in 10+ kill/time, and around 2 to 3 in kill/death.  Compare how both fly - I've never seen Latrobe over 10k, and usually it's about 2k or less, always fighting outnumbered.  Bruv flies much the same, but usually doesn't allow himself to get into a fight like that he'll lose.  They're both fantastic pilots, yet still have a slightly different style, one that the stats confirm if you look at it the way I'm describing, and if you've watched both pilots in game much, you'll agree I think with what I'm saying about their styles, that are very similar, yet slightly different as well.

Now look at a pilot like Zoney, super SA, probably among the best in the game, and the consummate BnZ pilot.  Check his tour stats out - 141 is a great example - 28 k/d, which is insane, and less than 2 kill/hour for kill/time stats.  That falls right into line with what I'm talking about, and his style which is another type I described - Zoney isn't down in the weeds nearly as much as Labtrobe, and rarely if ever puts himself in a spot where he may lose or get ganged up on.  That stats clearly agree with this, and if you've watched Zoney in game, you'll agree I think that this is how he flies, and does it brilliantly, to the point of being a perfect example for a "how to" manual.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 07:40:39 AM by Gman »