Is it wrong???

[Changeup]

I don't know why people replace "using commonsense" with "not willing to fight" or "he plays the survivability game". It is the same as "Hey everyone we are having a bar fights with bazookas, but if you have a knife and don't fight you are a coward, if you come in and get a lucky kill you are great! But eventually will be blown to bits anyway".

In the turning game the Brewster is the Bazooka vs the knife (La7), in the Speed/E-fighting game, the tables are turned.

If the LA does more than half a circle trying to get angles on a Brewster he is in trouble the Brewster's turn rate, energy retention in the horizontal (which allows him to go vertical if the LA does so after its slow from trying to turn with it). It is PURPOSELY putting yourself(LA pilot) in a bad situation, some people think its fun to fight a "challenging" fight that you aren't supposed to win, some people fly the plane to its strengths, fun to them is to string 6-10 kills a sortie, to do that you have to make smart decisions.

Better yet, think about it from your end, you KNOW you can out turn the LA7, that's the fight you want him to fight, if he plays the "challenging fight" game and you are any good behind the stick he SHOULD die, what fun is that for him? "Man, i turned with that Brewster for 1 circle, then he blew me out of the sky! What a challenge!"

Today I up my trusty LA7. I tangled with a few then in comes a Brewster.  Get on his six and he turns hard, avoiding my shot. I gain some ground and return, when i get within 800 he gets in a turn I simply cannot keep up with. Happened 4 or 5 times. Just before blowing a gasket I begin to ponder. I see a lot of talk on the forum about "Nerf Brewsters" "Zeke's do figure 8s around most planes" blah blah. Is it really wrong to capitalize on each planes strength? I was BnZing the LA7. Was I in the wrong to use its strength?.

You weren't wrong to use its strength, and neither was the LA7 pilots for using his, this just makes the point clear, Energy fighting is the most efficient way to fight, Turn fighting is  not. If you pitted the best energy fighter in the world vs the best turn fighter in the world, the turn fighter will be on the defensive the end for most of the fight if they stuck to their respective styles. The best pilot is one that can do BOTH when needed and can transition from one to the other at will.

The LA7 Pilot shouldn't have turned with you, but he could sure turn with a D9, P38, P51 for a much more extended period of time. Its all a matter of playing to your strengths and exploiting those strengths versus your opponents weaknesses.

Because in years and players past, lots of us have known a number of pilots that are truly excellent enough in the uber LW rides to beat Brews, zekes and Spits at their own game.  So from that perspective, which MAY NOT BE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, its disappointing.

Energy-->Angles-->Stall Fighting = What the best pilots that have ever played the game are able to do all the time, anytime and in virtually every plane.

That is a progression of a fight composed of all three flight modes.  If you only know one of them...you'll never get there.  You'll score fine but you'll lose everytime when you encounter guys that can do the progression.  Ask DrBone, TC, Batfink, TonyJoey, Dodger, Bighorn, NathBDP, Skyrock, Levi, JOACHIM, Redbull, Grizz, Kappa, Fester, Dedalos, MOOT, etc.  You can reach them via PM's, lol.

[Max]

I'm not on that  ^  ^  ^ list?

This is an OUTRAGE!!!!

 

[Skyyr]

Because in years and players past, lots of us have known a number of pilots that are truly excellent enough in the uber LW rides to beat Brews, zekes and Spits at their own game.  So from that perspective, which MAY NOT BE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, its disappointing.

Energy-->Angles-->Stall Fighting = What the best pilots that have ever played the game are able to do all the time, anytime and in virtually every plane.

That is a progression of a fight composed of all three flight modes.  If you only know one of them...you'll never get there.  You'll score fine but you'll lose everytime when you encounter guys that can do the progression.  Ask DrBone, TC, Batfink, TonyJoey, Dodger, Bighorn, NathBDP, Skyrock, Levi, JOACHIM, Redbull, Grizz, Kappa, Fester, Dedalos, MOOT, etc.  You can reach them via PM's, lol.

Ah, so encountering those guys and dying means you haven't mastered all 3. Therefore, on the flipside, if you fought any two (or perhaps three) of those guys, at the same time, in a 2v1 or even a 3v1, and won, it means you do know what you're doing. Hmmmm... interesting. Thanks for the reassurance!

[SkyRock]

if you fought any two (or perhaps three) of those guys, at the same time, in a 2v1 or even a 3v1, and won,

you are aware that putting the higher number first implies that you had the numbers... 

[Kruel]

Because in years and players past, lots of us have known a number of pilots that are truly excellent enough in the uber LW rides to beat Brews, zekes and Spits at their own game.  So from that perspective, which MAY NOT BE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, its disappointing.

Energy-->Angles-->Stall Fighting = What the best pilots that have ever played the game are able to do all the time, anytime and in virtually every plane.

That is a progression of a fight composed of all three flight modes.  If you only know one of them...you'll never get there.  You'll score fine but you'll lose everytime when you encounter guys that can do the progression.  Ask DrBone, TC, Batfink, TonyJoey, Dodger, Bighorn, NathBDP, Skyrock, Levi, JOACHIM, Redbull, Grizz, Kappa, Fester, Dedalos, MOOT, etc.  You can reach them via PM's, lol.

Of course pilot skill has plenty to do with it, which is why I said "the best in the world at e-fighting vs the best in the world at turn fighting". The pilots you named are all skilled, but I wasn't talking about individual skill, we were talking about using a plane to its strengths.

Sure, they beat other planes at their own game, who was flying the other plane? That is a different discussion. Last tour (or the one before), When Tonyjoey went on that 360-0 streak(or whatever that number might have been), I am fairly certain he didn't go out and do that in a 51 with the mentality that he was going to start turning with Zekes. He most likely flew his plane to its strengths, his experience taught him when he was able to get an angle on a zeke or when he needed to back off and extend for another pass. I am also fairly certain that in a multiple target environment he didn't commit himself to get low and slow on the deck and turn with a zeke while there are other targets in the air above him. He flew smart, he flew patiently. I am willing to bet he played the ENERGY game more than any other style.

Why do some people insist on trying to make it look like someone needs to climb some sort of ladder or talk to certain people or beat certain people to able to learn? It almost seems that you believe that if you haven't played Aces High and fought the best pilots here you know NOTHING about ACM, its not like you didn't learn it playing other games.

I have fought some of those names there, I have lost some and won some, so no, I don't lose *everytime*,

I might try to become the Best LA7 Pilot ever, do you think I am going to try and Stall fight the best 109x Pilot ever? No, because I know better, since I can't see who is flying behind the icon, I will treat every plane I see as if its the best pilot ever flying that plane until his flying tells me otherwise. Which means I will fly my plane it is strengths while trying to make him fly to his weaknesses.

My mentality is not like "Man, why did that 51 run from me?!? Why didn't he want to turn with my Zeke! What a coward!" its more like "OK, he did what he was supposed to do, Let me put myself in a position where I can get the jump on him or reset and try and sucker him into making a mistake (turning with me). When I die, I only blame myself.


What makes you think that I am only approaching it from one direction? What makes you think I don't work on my stall fighting or turn fighting? The difference is I know that you will have the MOST success while E-Fighting,  you turn/stall fight only if you are put in a position when you have to.

No matter what you say or what you do or how much you troll, will ever change how I spend my 15 bucks, and how I approach this game. Believe it or not there are other games out there, I have taken the same approach in all, and in all I have been fairly successful in most.

[Skyyr]

See Rule #4

[Cremator]

I guess I was misunderstood. (I was in a fight using my planes ability to turn tightly and I got upset because the opponent kept extending. I realized that he was using the same tactic I was, capitalizing on aircraft strengths, at which time I felt kind of like an idiot for getting mad because I was doing the same.)

Good discussions going on tho...

[GhostCDB]

I have no problem beating Brewsters or Zekes, cause all dweebs usually do in them is turn with them. The guys who fly zekes, brewsters, f4f, ki43, etc etc usually have never heard of a throttle. So I will let them do the lame flat turning game as I slowly throttle down, they get my six and we go into a scissor and you are going to fly by whether you want to or not.

Wantex has proven to be a little more difficult to beat in a zeke though   I hate fighting his zeke cause it is like the Japs gave him extra armor and it takes twice as many rounds and a little too much brainpower, for my liking, to get him to overshoot.

But fight your fight, don't let someone trick you into fighting their fight. In my opinion, I don't care who's fight I am fighting. As long as I can get a fight then I am fine. It is those who will fight you 3 v 1 and lose all their buddies then decide to run, those are the ones I despise. I NEVER expect the : 190Dora, P51D, LA7, Tempest, P47M, Yak3, and Spit14 to actually fight cause 9/10 they won't fight.   So I fight their fight and let them do their lame BnZ or shoot and run style until I die or until a squaddie comes to ruin them.  

Its your money, use it how you want.  

[Randy1]

The only reason the brewster is not a hanger queen in AH is because we play in a captive environment where we have a propensity to furbals.  In real life late war the Brewster would have been just flown past and given a low priority as not being much of a threat. 

I never heard Vox traffic complain about 109K's or spits going straight up which is exactly the same as resetting with speed.  Never heard someone say, "That doggoned Brewster turned real hard.  Can you believe he is escaping the fight by turning.  He should take it like a man and fly straight."

Most complaints like this are people venting their anger that another plane want fight in a manor that matches their plane's strength.  Like calling a guy an ack hug'er when there are ten vulchers waiting for him to break.

[USRanger]

If not using each plane's strengths was not the purpose, HTC wouldn't have bothered making more than a single flight model for the game.  In a fist fight, or aerial combat, the same rules apply to any conflict.

[Zerstorer]

Because in years and players past, lots of us have known a number of pilots that are truly excellent enough in the uber LW rides to beat Brews, zekes and Spits at their own game.  So from that perspective, which MAY NOT BE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, its disappointing.

I have no problem beating Brewsters or Zekes, cause all dweebs usually do in them is turn with them. The guys who fly zekes, brewsters, f4f, ki43, etc etc usually have never heard of a throttle. So I will let them do the lame flat turning game as I slowly throttle down, they get my six and we go into a scissor and you are going to fly by whether you want to or not.

Wantex has proven to be a little more difficult to beat in a zeke though   I hate fighting his zeke cause it is like the Japs gave him extra armor and it takes twice as many rounds and a little too much brainpower, for my liking, to get him to overshoot.

I agree with both statements.  But a zeke will beat even those guys in a slow differential knife fight a majority of the time if the pilot keeps his wits and is competent.  GhostCDB hit the nail on the head as to why many who fly the zeke or brew are easy to kill.....they don't use the throttle and overshoot.  Put someone in a zeke who flies it a often, understands it's strengths, weaknesses, etc it becomes a different story.  Few A6M3 pilots I see in the LWMA use the vertical at all, despite the A6M3 having a fairly good vert capabilities below 5K.  Fewer still know how to use controlled stalls, barrel rolls, hard rudder and flaps in a zeke to prevent an overshoot.

I've fought several of the pilots mentioned while in an A6M3 back when I few it nearly exclusively.  I won the majority of the time simply by exploiting the strengths of the plane...I had no illusions to the fact I would not have been able to do so if they choose not to knife fight me or were in a zeke as well.  That said, I always enjoyed watching how well the really experienced could use flaps, anticipate and use excellently timed lead turns to make it a VERY difficult fight. It is impressive to watch.

[nrshida]

I always think it's interesting to consider why players tend towards one end or the other of the BnZ - TnB spectrum.

[Kruel]

I always think it's interesting to consider why players tend towards one end or the other of the BnZ - TnB spectrum.

What's more interesting around here is that other people want to force you to lean in the direction that makes it easier for them to get a kill, or to have a "fun" fight. Doing otherwise is dishonorable and/or makes you a dweeb. They don't ask, they almost demand, if you deviate from those instructions you are garbage and will never amount to anything.

[Changeup]

Ah, so encountering those guys and dying means you haven't mastered all 3. Therefore, on the flipside, if you fought any two (or perhaps three) of those guys, at the same time, in a 2v1 or even a 3v1, and won, it means you do know what you're doing. Hmmmm... interesting. Thanks for the reassurance!

It means those guys survive in all of those modes.  Don't try to argue out of being a single dimensional fighter because it suits scoring.  I've seen all of those guys in A5's up to 51's tangle at 3 to 1 or more odds and LAND 6. 

Don't take it personally...you just be you and don't worry about what other people think.

[Changeup]

I always think it's interesting to consider why players tend towards one end or the other of the BnZ - TnB spectrum.

I absolutely see what you did there.  lol.  I wonder if others do.