Author Topic: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?  (Read 14896 times)

Offline Randy1

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Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« on: November 06, 2015, 12:10:52 PM »
I was just wondering what engine characteristics would make one engine type more suitable than another when designing a WW 2 plane?




Offline FLS

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 12:30:02 PM »
Drag, weight, power, reliability, and availability. 

Navy liked radials for flying over water.

Offline save

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 01:31:36 PM »
ki61 and ki100 are close to same plane with the difference that ki100 had radial engine vs ki61's inline.
It won quite some in weight and power, but lost some due to higher drag.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2015, 02:33:45 PM »
Radiator.. coolant.. holes
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Offline WaffenVW

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2015, 02:59:48 PM »
Inline: Pro: Low-drag, low-weight, fuel efficient. Con: Susceptible to damage, liquid cooling, technically complex.

Radial: Pro: Power, reliable, simple to maintain. Con: Draggy, gas guzzler, obstructs forward view.

Offline earl1937

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2015, 03:23:21 PM »
I was just wondering what engine characteristics would make one engine type more suitable than another when designing a WW 2 plane?
:airplane: I think the Navy preferred radials to V or in line engines for one reason: Acceleration! Its no secret that horse power for horse power, the radial will out climb the others, and short field performance is much better with a radial than a in line or V engine! You have to remember that during the WW2, there were no "steam" catapults and the radials had the power and acceleration to operate off of short fields, i.e. aircraft carriers! 
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Offline WaffenVW

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 03:42:52 PM »
"Its no secret that horse power for horse power, the radial will out climb the others"

How does that work?  :O

Offline FLOOB

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 04:15:13 PM »
Really, radials are heavier than inlines? And radials obstruct the view more? But landing seafires they would approach landing in a curve. Gas guzzlers?
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Offline kilo2

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 05:01:34 PM »
Ta-152 has an inline engine and I believe it hit the highest altitude of the war.

Edit: Earl is talking about climb rate?
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 06:57:27 PM »
The main reason for the US Navy preferring radials over inline had to do with the drawbacks of liquid cooling - easy to critically damage, thus less likely to return to the ship. Another consideration was having to store coolant aboard the ship - less space for other supplies.
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 07:00:17 PM »
A Radial engine was actually lighter than its Inline counter-parts. see Ki-100 vs Ki-61 and 190A vs 190D.


American planes just had over sized Radials for the most part.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2015, 09:38:32 PM »
So I get to be the first to resort to Wikipedia - which, in this case, makes as much sense as anything else.  I hadn't thought about their last point (that people stopped using inline engines by the end of WWII), but I think it's true.

Comparison with inline engines

Pros

Weight: Air-cooled radial engines often weigh less than equivalent liquid-cooled inline engines.

Damage tolerance: Liquid cooling systems are generally more vulnerable to battle damage. Minor shrapnel damage easily results in a loss of coolant and consequent engine seizure, while an air-cooled radial might be largely unaffected by minor damage.

Simplicity: Radials have shorter and stiffer crankshafts, a single bank radial needing only two crankshaft bearings as opposed to the seven required for a liquid-cooled six-cylinder inline engine of similar stiffness.

Reliability:The shorter crankshaft also produces less vibration and hence higher reliability through reduced wear and fatigue.

Smooth running: It is typically easier to achieve smooth running with a radial engine.



Cons
Cooling:
While a single bank radial permits all cylinders to be cooled equally, the same is not true for multi-row engines where the rear cylinders can be affected by the heat coming off the front row, and air flow being masked.

Drag: Having the cylinders exposed to the airflow increases drag considerably. The answer was the addition of specially designed cowlings with baffles to force the air between the cylinders. The first effective drag reducing cowling that didn't impair engine cooling was the British Townend ring or "drag ring" which formed a narrow band around the engine covering the cylinder heads, reducing drag. The National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics studied the problem, developing the NACA cowling which further reduced drag and improved cooling. Nearly all aircraft radial engines since have used NACA-type cowlings. Because radial engines are often wider than similar inlines or vees, it is more difficult to design an aircraft to minimize cross sectional area, a major cause of drag, although by the beginning of the Second World War, this disadvantage had largely disappeared as aircraft sizes increased, and multi-row radials increased the power produced in relation to the cross sectional area.

Power: Because each cylinder on a radial engine has its own head, it is impractical to use a multivalve valvetrain on a radial engine. Therefore, almost all radial engines use a two valve pushrod-type valvetrain which may result in less power for a given displacement than multi-valve inline engines. The limitations of the poppet valve were largely overcome by the development of the sleeve valve, but at the cost of increased complexity, maintenance costs and reduced reliability.

Visibility: Pilot visibility may be poorer due to the width of the engine on single-engine aircraft, although tight fitting cowlings helped reduce this factor somewhat. Equivalent inline engines often resulted in overly long noses, which similarly impaired visibility directly forward.

Installation: It is more difficult to ensure adequate cooling air in a buried engine installation or with pusher configurations.

Size: The smallest classes of radial engines, with three and five cylinders are very rough running and unreliable when compared to equivalent four cylinder inline or horizontally opposed engines which later became more popular for light aircraft as a result.

While inline liquid-cooled engines continued to be common in new designs until late in World War II, radial engines dominated afterwards until overtaken by jet engines, with the late-war Hawker Sea Fury and Grumman Bearcat, two of the fastest production piston-engined aircraft ever built, using radial engines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_engine
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 09:40:59 PM by Oldman731 »

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 11:49:08 PM »
The points made by Waffen and Oldman cover most of it.

On the durability issue, the Navy preferred radials as they could be flown having lost several cylinders.  While the lost cylinders would lose some oil, the remaining cylinders would continue to operate normally allowing pilots to safely return to their carriers over the extended ranges required.

On a side note, the FW 190 was originally designed for in-line engine use but, due to supply's being dedicated to the Bf 109, was converted to radials.  To overcome the inefficiencies of associated drag Kurt Tank designed the curved cowl, wrapping over and in front of the "top" portion of the engine while still allowing sufficient cooling.  The resulting aerodynamics (speed) combined with the durability of the radial engine allowed the 190 to become Germany's primary bomber interceptor.

Another advantage of the radial was simplicity of design/maintenance.

One last point I seen haven't seen mentioned is gun placement, particularly in V engine designs which, due to engine design, allowed for cowl and center hub gun placements. These aerodynamic and gun placement advantages were exemplified in the 109 series of aircraft.
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Offline WaffenVW

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2015, 07:15:52 AM »
A Radial engine was actually lighter than its Inline counter-parts. see Ki-100 vs Ki-61 and 190A vs 190D.


American planes just had over sized Radials for the most part.

The Ha40 engine of the Ki-61 weighs 1,320 lb vs the Ki-100 Kinsei Ha112 engine's 1,202 lb. The Ha40 engine was a Japanese version of the DB 601 engine used in the 109E, so it was getting very long in the tooth by 1945. The power to weight advantage goes to the Ki-100's Ha112 because it is a more developed engine. Against a contemporary 1945 inline engine the Ha114 would have lost, as your other example illustrates: The 190D's Jumo 213 weighs in at 2,072 lb vs the 190A's BMW 801D-2's 2,226 lb. The Jumo delivers 2,022 hp vs the BMW's 1,677 hp. So not only does the inline Jumo engine weigh less it produces more power as well for a much better power to weight ratio. The added weight of the 190D over the 190A is mostly structural since the longer engine shifted the CG forward requiring a lengthening of the rear fuselage to balance it out.

My point about weight and power with regard to radial engines is that they are much easier to scale up into the 3,000-4000 hp range than a complicated inline engine. Big inline engines like the 24 cylinder Napier Sabre that powered the Typhoon and Tempest were plagued by reliability problems. Sure the radial will be heavy, draggy and use more gas, but it will work.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 07:23:58 AM by WaffenVW »

Offline WaffenVW

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Re: Radial Engines vs Inline Engines?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2015, 07:39:16 AM »
I mean look at it. Imagine having to work on this beast!



If a piston cracks, assuming it doesn't wreck the whole engine you'd still have to pull the engine off the plane. God only knows how many man hours would be needed to change a cylinder lining and piston.

On a radial each cylinder is a separate unit bolted to the crankcase. You'd just pull the pot and piston, inspect the connecting rods and crank for damage and put in a new piston and pot. The work can be done with the engine still on the plane.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 07:41:46 AM by WaffenVW »