AH III missing skin file replacement effects

[Greebo]

The topic of what happens to skins which lack all the latest files is threatening to derail Skuzzy's Skin Display Page thread so I decided to start a new thread to discuss it.

The following screenshots show how AH III handles old skins that lack the skin effects files that newer skins have.

Screenshot 1 shows a skin with just the diffuse file in the skin folder. This represents a skin that was submitted prior to when HTC introduced bump and spec mapping in AH II. Like all these skins in the game it looks absurdly glossy. It is using the default Panther's normal map as can be seen by the normal-generated ridges on the mud guards. However it seems not to be using the default skin's specular map, its hard to tell whether its using the power or environmental maps. According to HTC a skin like this is supposed to use all the default skin's effect files, if so then this is a bug.




Screenshot 2 shows a skin with only the diffuse and normal map in the skin folder. It is still far too glossy, only the bumps have changed. While this is not a combination that would appear in the game I included it to illustrate why using the default skin's files to replace missing files is not the best way to do this. These bumps match the diffuse skin while the default skin's ones do not. It would be better just to use some stock blank effect files for replacing missing files rather than the default.




Screenshot 3 shows a skin with just the specular map included. This appears to be working as HTC intended, it isn't shiny and the ridges on the mudguard show it is using the default normal map. Including only the power or environmental maps gives a similar effect.




Screenshot 4 is the skin with all four of its effect files present for comparison.

[Vraciu]

Well presented.  Explains a lot. 

[Skuzzy]

It appears we might be incorrect in how missing maps are applied.  It will take some time to figure out.  Right now, I am going to pull the section out of the skins display utility until we can figure it out.

[hitech]

Ah uses 2 TEXTURES don't confuse textures with bmps in reading this .

The first texture we call the diffuse , its rgb channels contain the diffuse bit map .It's alpha channel can contain either the alpha or secular bit maps.

The 2nd texture we usually call the normal map  (I.E. the _NEP texture NEP= Normal Enviorment Power). the first 2 channels contain the x and y of then normal bit map . The 2nd 2 channels (Blue and Alpha) contain either the Environment and power or the Environment and Spec if if an alpha channel exists.

Ah will uses the default normal map texture (I.E. the NEP) or the default Diffuse texture if none is created by the Skinner.

HiTech

[Greebo]

OK so if I understand this right then for any really old skin, one that only has a diffuse map, the game is trying to create the diffuse texture out of the diffuse map but is  not using the default skin's specular map because this file is rolled into the default diffuse texture and can't be separated. It then sets the specular level to full power giving us the shiny skin effect seen in shots 1 and 2. The NEP texture is just carried over from the default maps.

I still reckon it would be better to use stock blank bmps to replace missing files rather than the default skin's ones.

[Vraciu]

OK so if I understand this right then for any really old skin, one that only has a diffuse map, the game is trying to create the diffuse texture out of the diffuse map but is  not using the default skin's specular map because this file is rolled into the default diffuse texture and can't be separated. It then sets the specular level to full power giving us the shiny skin effect seen in shots 1 and 2. The NEP texture is just carried over from the default maps.

I still reckon it would be better to use stock blank bmps to replace missing files rather than the default skin's ones.

+1

That will make these skins look a lot better.     

[Skuzzy]

Appreciate the effort Greebo.  The intent was not to have that appearance.

We are looking into ways to address it.  Simply dropping in a spec map impacts 565 skins.

[Greebo]

Yes, I can see how you wouldn't want to redo all the skins. I guess the alternative might be to get the game to default to a specular level of say 20% or so instead of 100% if a skin's diffuse texture's alpha channel is entirely white (i.e no spec map supplied).

[Vraciu]

The best change that can be made on the fly is a blank Normal Map.   I know I am beating a dead horse here, but the default maps are "over bumping" the skins that weren't drawn with them in mind.

These skins will look a lot better without Normal mapping than having one that doesn't fit.    The other option might be to take a copy of the default Normal map and dial it waaaaaaaaay back then apply that to those that weren't made with it.   

Not being critical, just offering an idea.   Good to see you guys on the case.   

[DubiousKB]

Bump...

Any movement on making all the skins look as good as the new ones?  I got directed to this topic after requesting an easy way to identify "good" skins from the drop down list in game without having my own separate written down list telling me which are native to AH3 and which ones are not yet "beautified"...

[lyric1]

Bump...

Any movement on making all the skins look as good as the new ones?  I got directed to this topic after requesting an easy way to identify "good" skins from the drop down list in game without having my own separate written down list telling me which are native to AH3 and which ones are not yet "beautified"...

Only person who can fix these skins to the best of my knowledge is the skinner who did it. Since a large portion of the skins were done by people who are no longer around my guess is they will sit in game until removed.
Or adopted.

[Skuzzy]

There is no simple solution to this.  Report the skins which look bad and we can see what we can do, but there is no dividing line between AH2 and AH3 skins.

If we removed all the AH2 skins, it would mean removing over half the skins in the game.

[DubiousKB]

There is no simple solution to this. [...] but there is no dividing line between AH2 and AH3 skins.

Hmm it seems that this statement is where all the challenges occur. There's no clear differentiation between skins solely created for within AH3 and legacy skins?   

So frustrating. Default skin "to be safe"...   

What a silly situation.

[Greebo]

It is not a question of AH2 or AH3 skins, there are plenty of pre-AH3 skins that look fine now. The issue is whether the skin was created with a specularity map. If there was no specularity map included with a skin when it was submitted then AH3 turns the skin lighting effects to chrome. Deleting the affected skins will create a lot of grief for HTC and altering each skin to fix the issue would mean having everyone have to download all those skins again. As I said before the best solution is to have the game recognise that if a skin has a diffuse texture with a pure white alpha channel it should override this with a more sensible specularity setting, say 20% or so. Maybe use baked-in power, normal and environment settings too.

[Vraciu]

The other issue is that some skins had effects files but these did not get ported over and were replaced by the default maps, etc.   This happened to all of mine.