I think it's time to add Bomber Pilots to the Endangered Pilots List.

[Beefcake]

Bomber Pile-its are quickly becoming extinct! We need to put them on the Endangered Pilots List quicky so they can be protected and so that their population can rebuild.


Pilots currently on the list:

Bishop Goon Pilots.

Pilots with working Brains.

[moot]

the cargo, paratroopers or supply crates, should be added to the damage list.

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Beefcake


Bishop Goon Pilots.

Pilots with working Brains.

No wonder.

[Revvin]

The bomber systems introduced in v1.10 were great but the MA is not geared towards any kind of strategy, it's 'airquake' both myself and my squad have reduced our flying hours to squad nights only while we wait for the mission arena.

[Turbot]

Originally posted by moot
the cargo, paratroopers or supply crates, should be added to the damage list.

yes a long over looked item this

[lazs2]

"missuns" have put skill and fun fites on the endangered list.
lazs

[Bullethead]

BeefCake said:

Bomber Pile-its are quickly becoming extinct!

What's wrong with seeing fewer buffs?  You can't seriously want a return to the bogus pre-1.10 mess of snaking around wildly at 20k while dropping individual LGBs on individual buildings, and hitting moving ships with level bombing.  Geez, we endured that enough all through AW and pre-1.10 AH.

Strat targets are still on the map so buffers can't be complaining about no longer being able to milk them, unless they lack the trivial motor skills necessary to calibrate their sights.  I have a low opinion of buffers in general but even I think they're capable of doing that.

So I guess it all boils down to it being true what folks have been saying for like 15 years about buffers.  Namely, that most are only interested in the feeling of power they get from singlehandedly nuking an area and thus severely limiting the amount of fun dozens of others can have there, from a position of relative safety high above the low-alt melee they can't compete in.  That they are not out to play the game themselves, but to see how many other people ("friend" or foe) they can keep from playing the game.  After all, not only does nuking a field keep the nme from flying there, but it keeps the friendlies from being able to fight the nme.  

1.10 effectively ended the ability to do this crap.  Buff numbers are way down as a result.  Draw your own conclusions, but I say "good riddance."

Lazs said:

"missuns" have put skill and fun fites on the endangered list.

As to the dearth of "fun fights", we gave those up when we accepted the ability to capture all airfields and "win the war".  We have a definite goal to achieve now, so the fighting focuses on that goal.  If we didn't have this goal, fighting would be difuse, static, and pointless except for its own sake.  IOW, like it was back in DOS AW, when "fun fights" were the norm because there wasn't anything else to do really.  You just had the choice of furballs of decreasing size from the center of the map outwards, finally tapering to 1v1 fights on the fringes.  And that was it, no matter who won the fights nor how decisive their victory.

I just don't see a way to generate a lot of "fun fights" in an arena where all the factors work against them.  Consider:

• A country MUST capture fields at least as fast as it loses them or it gets pushed into a corner with all strat permanently porked, until it gets reset.  It can't just sit there and try to do pointless DOS AW style "fun fights" or it WILL be reset.  So the very nature of the arena forces fights to be all about airfield captures.
• The airfield capture system that keeps a couple of dweebs from milking a whole side of the map while nobody's looking means the attacker has to have mass in general.  When the airfield is contested, the attacker must have sufficient mass to achieve a significant numerical advantage over the defender.  This forces players to congregate in large groups, so you'll hardly ever see a 1v1 opportunity.
• Because the maps keep getting bigger, there is always going to be a place where the attackers can find a weakly defended area.  So if the attackers can't achieve the numerical advantage needed to take a well-defended field, they will always shift to a different target, because they MUST capture fields to survive and don't have time to waste in long battles of attrition.  This means that more or less even furballs never last very long, and almost all battles will be very 1-sided in terms of numbers.
• Because of all the above, almost every battle in the arena will play out as follows:  1) Huge attacking force sweeps smaller defending force from the sky near a field; 2) Huge attacking force then vulches defenders still trying to contest the issue; 3) Field falls to attackers, attackers push on to repeat the process at the next field.

If you don't like this, then the only option is to fly in an arena offering different goals, with the 2 or 3 other pilots who share your tastes.  But as long as the MA revolves around resets, arena Darwinism will force combat into massive, 1-sided vulchathons.

[vorticon]

how about adding p47 d11 pilots to endangered pilot list i have never seen more than 2 people who will (or even can) fly it

[lazs2]

bullethead... that is well said and very true.  I can't argue any of it except...

no one is forced to participate in the gangbangs.   I think that a lot of guys that are in them now are new guys that are insecure about their abilities and want/need the safety of numbers.. also.. I think said newbies want to be a part of something and feel they are "contributing"...

I think that the gangbang "missun" "capture the flag" is by far the most boring gameplay and that eventually, as skill and  experiance increases, the majoritgy of the new guys will be looking for good fights instead of the safety of killing a few buildings and maybe the odd lucky vultch.  

I have been at a few of these gangbangs (from both sides) and from the gangbanger side.... I can probly get about 50% of the vultchs (and I am at best mediocre).   These guys can't even get their planes around and in position to kill another plane on the runway... they think about it too long... while they are doint that I kill the poor dumb newbie taking off to defend...

I actually think that it will get better when people realize that the strat is no fun and not really worth anything unless you play for 4 hours at a time.  People will be looking for good fites and not easy "capture the flag".
lazs

[loser]

Yup, bombers and their pilots are definately endangered.  

Btw lazs and others who dont like bombers because they "ruin the fun for everyone else."

Not saying that you dont have a valid point, but some people have fun doing different things.  

Do i enjoy seeing a base crushed as if a nuclear weapon was detonated?  Damn right i do.  To me, nothing is more exciting than a group of buffs getting a good calibration and flattening a base or factory installation.  Part of this excitment and "fun" for me includes disabling fighter ops from a base.  By ruining your "fun" i increase my "fun." Plain and simple.

I will readily admit though that the pre 1.10 bombing was lame and far too easy and un-realistic (knowing the fact that WWII bombers sometimes missing their targets by 5 miles or more.)

While at first i was discouraged and frustrated with the new bombsite (as were many others, some even quitting the game because of it,) I have learned to cope and even, yes, enjoy the new site.  It has required bomber pilots to coordinate their attacks and actually be skilled at what they do.  

We must travel and bomb in groups, and fly at low altitude in order to be successful.  That means more bombers flying at low alts.  More targets that are easier to kill for fighters.  More fun for fighters right?

In short, bombers are not an extinct breed, and never will be.

[oboe]

Originally posted by loser
Do i enjoy seeing a base crushed as if a nuclear weapon was detonated?  Damn right i do.  To me, nothing is more exciting than a group of buffs getting a good calibration and flattening a base or factory installation.  Part of this excitment and "fun" for me includes disabling fighter ops from a base.  By ruining your "fun" i increase my "fun." Plain and simple.

Man, this almost makes me want to try my hand at buffing.   Remember the movie "The War Lover", with Steve McQueen as a B-17 pilot?    Loser's quote isn't far from what Capt.  Buzz Rickson would've said.

Laz and Bullethead, them's fightin' words, ain't they?    Time to spent a couple hundred of your 1000s of perk points on a 262 I would think.    Myself, I can almost afford one agin.

[lazs2]

262's aren't fighters either..  they probly work well for killing fluffs but.... why bother?   even if fluffs could devestate the game I wouldn't want to go out of my way to kill one since it is like fighting Ai.

loser... I don't get it... what fun is it to kill Ai?  to battle buildings with the hope... that it makes things more difficult for others to enjoy the game?   you haven't "beaten" anyone because no one but you knew you were even trying to.   No one cares.  maybe 2% "hunt" you or try to stop you...   At best... you make it inconvienient for those who wish to fight other players.
lazs

[Shiva]

Originally posted by lazs2
loser... I don't get it... what fun is it to kill Ai?  to battle buildings with the hope... that it makes things more difficult for others to enjoy the game?   you haven't "beaten" anyone because no one but you knew you were even trying to.

Look at all the pasttimes that people engage in, Lasz, where their doing it is something between them and the world -- where it's not a competition pitting your skill against someone else's skill, but a matter of 'can I face this and do it right, do it better than I did it last time, do it better than I've ever done it before?'

In a competition where you are pitted directly against someone else, you will never really know whether it's your skill or their mistake that gave you the victory. They could have sneezed, or coughed, or spilled coffee in their lap, or had someone distract them at just the wrong time, and you were able to take advantage of their loss of attention. But you'll never know that your victory was entirely due to your skill.

In a competition against a static, external, and objective measure, it's all about doing the best you can, and measuring that against the task; whether you succeeded or not depends only on yourself, not on the failings of an opponent.

Those of us who fly bombers don't need to see someone else's plane fall out of the sky flaming to get our satisfaction; we get it by performing a complicated and finicky task with skill and precision, measuring our success against our previous success -- a competition against ourselves, not against others. That by doing it well we get to hose your fun, too is just lagniappe.

WWII air combat didn't revolve around fighters shooting each other down; it revolved around bombers destroying the enemy's ability to wage war, and fighters trying to stop them, and more fighters trying to protect them. The fighter-vs-fighter battles existed to decide whether the bombers would be able to reach their targets and destroy them; being able to shoot down other fighters well didn't give you a thing unless it was to let you protect or destroy bombers.

[lazs2]

that's fine shiva but why bother to play in a multiplayer online game if your goal is to see how many buildings you can destroy?  More importantly.... what do you care about the effect you have on the other players who are (seriously now) playing a completely different game than you are?   Why would you wish to inconvienence them... they don't even know who caused the inconvience or... care.... just that it exists.
lazs

[loser]

Shiva you said it better than i could.


It is exaclty that lazs.  You are basically fighting yourself.  I find the idea of testing my own skill much more enjoyable than testing the skill of someone else.

If you really believe that playing AH involves some sort of online mental chess you are mistaken.  (I don't mean to be insulting, but that is the best way i can put it.)

Lazs i respect you, i may even like you...

So figure this.  You love cars. I love cars. I love tweaking the crap out of them so they haul ass.  But i dont do it because im trying to impress other people or win races.  I do it because i try to get the most out of my machine.  Basically if i go a bit faster and keep things straighter i think "I beat myself, now on to the next level."

The same goes for bombing in AH.  

My point is that the toughest enemy you will ever face is yourself and your own lack of skill.  To conquer your own ineptitude is worth many times what it is to defeat an enemy.