Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Kweassa on August 13, 2005, 06:40:52 PM
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I wish for correct sequence of ammunition and traver colors depicted for the guns:
VVS
DA
- green
- APIT - API - T - API
ShKAS
- green
- APIT - API - T - API
UB(S)
- white
- APIT - AP - HEI
B-20
- red
- APIT - HE
ShVAK
- red
- APIT - HE
VYa
- red
- HEIT - API - API
NS-37
- red
- HEIT - APT
- APT - HEIT - HEIT (for Yak-9UT)
NS-45
- yellow
- HEIT - APT
LW
MG15
- white
- AP - AP - APT
MG17
- red
- AP - AP - AP - AP - AP - APIT - APIT - APIT - APIT - APIT
MG81Z
- white
- AP - APT
MG 131
- 17 kg
- blue
- HET - AP - HE - AP
MG-FF/M
- yellow
- APIT - HE - HE - MG(MeinGeschoss)
MG 151/15
- red
- HET - AP - HE - AP
MG 151/20
- blue
- APIT - HE - HE - API - HE
- APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG(for Gunpods)
MK 108
- yellow
- HEIT - MG
BK 3.7
- red
- APCRT (Ju-87G1)
- HET (Bf110 BK 3.7 gunpod)
IJN/IJAAF
Type 89
- red
- APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API
Type 92
- red
- APIT - AP
Type 97
- yellow
- APT - AP - AP (Zero)
- APIT - AP (Val)
Ho 103
- yellow
- HET - AP - HE - AP
Type 3
- blue
- HET - AP - HE - AP
Ho 5
- yellow
- APIT - HE - AP - HE
Type 99-1
- yellow
- APIT - HE - HE - MG
Type 99-2
- yellow
- APIT - HE - HE - MG
Ho 155
- yellow
- HET - HE
USAAF/USN
Browning M2 .30
- red
- APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API
Browning M2 .50
- red
- APIT - AP - HE - AP
M2 20mm
- yellow
- HET - AP - HE - AP
M4
- red
- HET - HET
M10
- red
- HET - HET
RAF
Browning .303
- red
- APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API
Hispano MkI, II, V
- yellow
- HET - AP - HE - AP
RA(Reggia Aeronautica
BREDA SAFAT 7.7
- red
- ?
BREDA SAFAT 12.7
- red
- HET - AP - HE - AP
MG 151/20
- blue
- APIT - HE - HE - API - HE
IIRC from past discussions, AH uses 'hybrid' rounds for every round fired with mixed characteristics.
Some argue that this may warp or exaggerate the efficiency of some types of weapons, while reducing the efficienct of others.
While I won't go as far as asking for a different ballistics for all of those rounds too, it would be nice if some effort was made to try and depict the different ammunition loading.
IMO, it won't make much difference for the HMGs, but most 20mms would feel a slightly less powerful due to the mix of AP rounds. A few special weapon types OTOH, such as some German guns using MeinGeschoss rounds, would feel an increase in power - for instance the gunpods on the 109s, which 40% of the ammunition is the powerful Meingeschoss.
Also, for small details... I'm guessing that the reason our 20mm hit marks aren't using the new, cool "HE" visual effect, is because the 20mm ammunition belt is all filled up with hybrid HEs.. that would make every hit landed on an enemy plane light up with explosions.. which would hardly be realistic. Using the correct ammo sequence.. would make it possible to see the new effects in action with 20mm hits also.
As for the tracer colors.. well.. I just consider that a bonus. Different tracer colors.. and perhaps a different tracer shape too (the current shape sort of looks like a laser beam than a gun tracer round...).
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Would also help with the "rubber bullets" as well. You could see if it was indeed cannons or just machine guns.
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Here's a mockup of different tracer colors..
I think if the colors are done right, it won't look as silly as it might seem. Maybe it could be given luminous effects, if it won't hurt the performance too much.
The size of the mockup tracers are reduced to 75% level of original(the 'default' one too). I figure that the reason the original tracer was so large and long, was because it's the tracer from the old days, when we didn't have any smoke trail to give you round travel info. Only the 'gray laserbeam' was there. I think the size and length of the tracers was to divert the attention to the silly looking gray lasers to the tracers itself..
A smaller, shorter one doesn't seem too bad.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/232_1123979229_tracermockup.gif)
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Meh.. I don't like the idea. It would take too long to re-code the ammo mixes (you would essentially need to re-code the guns damage entirely). I don't use tracers anyways, however, and it's taken me so long to get reliable hits on the *current* gunnery model, I'd not want to have to RE-learn it all again.
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Tracers were one of the few things things I really liked about WW2 Online.
They did a good job of tracers and their visibility. I have to say when firing a ground gun or AA gun they really gave you the feeling of distance {like you were there type of feeling}
In AH all the tracers seem to all act exactly the same, some of the planes tracers are a little different but not much.
Field ack, ostie rounds, M16's, CV guns all pretty much look alike IMO. Either that or I don't have something enabled in the prefrences?
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Meh.. I don't like the idea. It would take too long to re-code the ammo mixes (you would essentially need to re-code the guns damage entirely). I don't use tracers anyways, however, and it's taken me so long to get reliable hits on the *current* gunnery model, I'd not want to have to RE-learn it all again.
Why would you need to relearn anything, if the ballistics remain the same?
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Regarding the new cannon hit animation, isn't that only on the large cannons? 30mm Mk108, the Osti, and the Yak's spudapult?
Also, are you sure the 20mm cannons aren't firing HE rounds? That's the first mention I've seen of the cannons firing slugs (aside from the 40mm on the D hurri's), and I'm wondering how you determined they were firing plain slugs.
APIT? What's the T indicate?
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Regarding the new cannon hit animation, isn't that only on the large cannons? 30mm Mk108, the Osti, and the Yak's spudapult?
Yes.
But 20mms should be more or less simular since all HE rounds are the same. 30mm or 37mm is just basically more explosives crammed into a single shell than 20mm.
(40mms actually shouldn't show that 'explosion', since Hurri2D 40mms are solid armour piercing anti-tank shells)
Also, are you sure the 20mm cannons aren't firing HE rounds? That's the first mention I've seen of the cannons firing slugs (aside from the 40mm on the D hurri's), and I'm wondering how you determined they were firing plain slugs.
Well, it's just a theory.
The only thing we're sure about is that AH doesn't model individual differences in single rounds, since HT told us so. People've been guessing how it worked.. and this is what they came up with.
...
If I conjure some numbers up just for the sake of discussion... (but not random)
MG151/20
HE: 80
AP: 30
Hispano Mk.II
HE: 100
AP: 60
The Hispano cannon is clearly more powerful than the MG151/20. However, while the power of the HE round is somewhat comparable, the AP round is vastly in favor of the Hispano thanks to the shooting power of the gun itself.
In real life 20mm cannons had a mix of HE round and AP round. The Hispano ammunition sequence is HET - AP - HE - AP. The MG151/20 sequence is APIT - HE - HE - API - HE
So the gun power would be like;
Hispano
100-60-100-60
single sequence = 320
MG151/20
30-80-80-30-80
single sequence =300
People theorize that AH uses a 'hybrid' figure, since it doesn't model the effects of mixed ammunition. The damage is dealt in numbers, so a single 20mm round fired in AH, will be an average of the powers of HE and AP rounds.
So, it would be 50% HE and 50% AP, fused into one, to deal an average amount of damage. In this case, the Hispano would be 50(HE)+30(AP) = 80, and the MG151/20 would be 15(AP)+40(HE) =55.
So, in AH,
Hispano:
80-80-80-80
single sequence = 320
MG151/20
55-55-55-55-55
single sequence =275
The hybridization of HE and AP rounds into a single round, apparently does injustice to some cannons.
Now.. this is only a guess some people made, and I'm not basing anything on this.
One thing for certain is that AH does not model individual round types.. and perhaps there's no such thing as 'injustice' to some cannons.
However, modelling each rounds could only mean the game's getting better, and that's why I want it. Not to correct something that's unjust, but just to see the game becoming more real.
APIT? What's the T indicate?
'T'racer.
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Ah, I see what you're getting at. FWIW, I'd love to see the Incendiary(sp) rounds, and the HE? rounds (perhaps API, can't find the thread) that the heavy LW machine guns used. I suspect this requires a pretty serious reworking of the guns and ammunition tables, and probably a helluva lot of code to cover the types and combinations.
Anyway, it is called a Wishlist.
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Since your on the topic of tracers large and small.
THere is one thing that is inherent to the "Ball Tracer"
No matter what they impact they ricochet at random.
It could be water or plastic but they all do it. It does look cool when they do too.
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No offense man, but bullets are bullets and they will always scare the **** out of me unless they are paintballs.
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How about modeling damage from incendiary ammo. Then there would be another drawback to loading only ball ammo.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
No offense man, but bullets are bullets and they will always scare the **** out of me unless they are paintballs.
Take a paintball in the gahoolies at close range and they will
scare ya too Wolf :lol
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I suspect this requires a pretty serious reworking of the guns and ammunition tables, and probably a helluva lot of code to cover the types and combinations.
Serious reworking.. AND a lot of experimentation, at least, according to the IL2/FB experience. The 1C crew took something like 5~6 versions of the game to finally get it right.. although many of the changes they had to do were mostly from their wishy-washy attitude in face of gamer complaints.
But once it's done right, it's worth the work. Couple it with a better external-internal DM, and it's really good.
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Originally posted by Rino
Take a paintball in the gahoolies at close range and they will
scare ya too Wolf :lol
Quit shooting yourself in the gahoolies:)
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First time I played 10 years ago I got it right in the neck below the neck guard. I protect my balls anyway.
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While we're at it..
Would adding a bit of "glow" effect to weapon tracers deter the game performance too much?
The current tracers aren't that bad.. but when you look at some of the other games.. well.. it looks a bit too solid in color.
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Didn't HT tell us a while back that the best ammunition for the purpose is used?
If you hit an airplane with 20mm it will react as HE but if you hit a Tank on the ground it will react as AP.
Not sure though but remember something about it...