Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DZZ400 on December 01, 2009, 06:11:29 PM
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I have used a "Logitech Extreme 3D Pro" no feedback and have had no problems with it. But I want to move up to using a 2 hand joystick + throttle controller like a "Logitech Flight System G940". Is it worth the steep price tag or is there something better. Your feed back would be appreciated and help me fly better on Aces High II.
Thank You, DZZ400 :airplane:
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Personally, I love the Saitek X52. There's a "Pro" version too, but I haven't tried that one.
Lots of buttons on the X52, and I can fly/fight without taking my eyes off the computer screen since I don't need the keyboard to operate any flight-related functions.
The only downside I've found is that I'll wear out a button or two every 10 months or so. I buy it with the two-year replacement plan though, so I just take it back to the store and swap for a new one when that happens.
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Yes I noticed ther were two different versions. One's about $70+ and the other is $140+. I'll do more research on them. Thanks 4 the post. :rock
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The only person I know who purchased the G940 said it started to get input spikes in the rudder after a month or so of use. This seems to be a common complaint of Logitech gear, I know the Logitech stick I had years ago developed similar issues. I've had good luck with Saitek product in the past and used an older version of their HOTAS system for a good 3-4 years. I bought a refurb off their store and paid around $40.00 for it. The X45 and X52 systems are pretty popular with a lot of folks around here although I have heard of some people having durability issues. I think the most popular system is the stuff sold by CHProducts, a stick, throttle, rudder setup will carry a bit of a price tag ($300+) but they enjoy a good reputation and the product is built to last.
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I don't own every joystick or HOTAS ever made so I can't answer your original question. However, people with money to burn will generally go with CH.
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I don't own every joystick or HOTAS ever made so I can't answer your original question. However, people with money to burn will generally go with CH.
Which joystick do you fly with?
And what does your scaling look like?
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Along with the Saitek X52, I should probably mention I have a set of the CH Pro Pedals, and they've worked great for several years.
This is what my scaling looks like-
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/AileronScaling.jpg)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/ElevatorScaling.jpg)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/RudderScaling.jpg)
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Any reason why you have scaling off for your rudder pedals?
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Any reason why you have scaling off for your rudder pedals?
No. I think i accidentally hit that before I took my screenshot.
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Which joystick do you fly with?
And what does your scaling look like?
I'll get round to posting it in a second Kerm
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EDIT
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here you go kerm. :aok
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-12-0207-29-51-18.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-12-0207-29-54-68.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-12-0207-30-01-05.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aceshigh2009-12-0207-30-08-11.jpg)
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Thanks Mtnman, kazaa.
I'll go with Mtnman, but will try to recreate kazaa's damping. Anything to help improve my gunnery.
<S>!
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This is what my scaling looks like-
What scaling, wouldn't it just have been easier to say I don't have any?
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My favorite Stick so far has been the CH fighter stick. It comes with a program that allows you to have much finer grained control of the stick. Furthermore, you can map combination of buttons to 'virtual buttons' allowing you to do everything without taking you hand off the stick. The program also allows you to have a non-linear responses (similar to stick scaling) on the analog axises. This allows for a feel that kinda like a car with variable ratio power steering, where small movements result in very small readings but as the stick is further from the center the reading are scaled greater and greater.
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What scaling, wouldn't it just have been easier to say I don't have any?
Yea, but when I do that it seems I get a lot of "what do you mean, no scaling?" questions. Easier to just post the pictures, since they're already uploaded...
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I'm happy with my G940. A few people here have it and so far I've just heard the one complaint about the rudder spiking. My rudder is fine. I have a modded Cougar that I haven't plugged in since I got the Logitech.
Mtnman why do you enable scaling when you don't use it?
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Mtnman why do you enable scaling when you don't use it?
I've been wondering the same thing. I've just always had it checked, but I suppose it doesn't need to be. I don't see any difference one way or the other (probably because although it's enabled, I don't use it, hehe!)
Back when I started, I went through a faze where I experimented with scaling, thinking it would cure my bouncing nose issues. I probably checked that box way back then, and just never unchecked it.
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Back when I started, I went through a faze where I experimented with scaling, thinking it would cure my bouncing nose issues.
I get that "bouncing" all the time in all 3 axis. Would a better joystick fix this ?
I got a low end logic3 stick when I first started 11months ago
KlunK
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I have the CH Fighterstick USB and the CH Propedals USB.Ive had em for over 10 years. Ive had to spray the stick contacts once in a hat switch and a wire broke going to the right toe brake in the rudders. Other than that,smooth sailing the entire time. :aok :rock
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:aok Thanks for all the input. It made my choice easier. I found a "SAITEK PS28 FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEM X52 PC JOYSTICK NEW" on e-bay with shipping under $100. Other stores want $300-400 for the full 3 part set. I'll see if I need the foot controlls later. C-Ya in Aces High :rock
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I have this old Saitek Cyborg Graphite. Nifty little thing, my brother gave it to me. Its probably in excess of 7 years old, and the only broken parts are the hat switch and the main trigger. Otherwise, it does its job :aok
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best joystick?
CH FTW! haven't tried the new logitech set yet and probably won't as I don't have any need to improve upon perfection.
and Kermit you shoot bad because your a frog puppet get some man hands freak.
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I have used a "Logitech Extreme 3D Pro" no feedback and have had no problems with it. But I want to move up to using a 2 hand joystick + throttle controller like a "Logitech Flight System G940". Is it worth the steep price tag or is there something better. Your feed back would be appreciated and help me fly better on Aces High II.
Logitech 3D was the worst stick I ever had for a flight sim, so anything you get will be a step up. I recommend not to touch anything from Logitech. CH stuff is probably the best but I am not sure it is worth the price. Saitek is much lower quality than CH, but also much cheaper and gives better value for money - I had only 1 Saitek stick very long ago, so my experience with them is limited. It was good until it crocked 6 months later.
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looking for a joystick without the twisty feature. are the ch sticks twisty?
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they have no twist function. You will need pedals or some other rudder device.
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I like g940. I really like the force feedback from it as I play DCS Blackshark (full realism attack helicopter game) and being able to feed feedback, especially from trim, is really nice. I have not had a problem with any problems at all and it even has the option to separate the throttle to make it 2 different throttles, which is really cool for games like microsoft flight sim or if you want separate throttle control in this game.
G940 is good but it is expensive ... worth it if you can shell out the bucks :-)
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Just another data point:
Going on 2.5 years now with a X52 with no problems (not the Pro, just regular X52). I bought it after my Logiteck 3D pro died after 6 months of use.
Six months ago I went with the Saitek rudder pedals. It feels funny for about a week; but I wouldn't go back to a twisty ever.
Rudder pedals are beneficial for smoother maneuvers / control vice using a twisty stick which is also controling the other two axis.
I've never had a CH stick.
V/R and <S>, LTARjink
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I have this old Saitek Cyborg Graphite. Nifty little thing, my brother gave it to me. Its probably in excess of 7 years old, and the only broken parts are the hat switch and the main trigger. Otherwise, it does its job :aok
Both my Cyborgs main triggers broke also lol
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Along with the Saitek X52, I should probably mention I have a set of the CH Pro Pedals, and they've worked great for several years.
This is what my scaling looks like....
Without your pic schematics I would be sending the Steak back to the manufacture.... :D Thank You 4 your help.. :salute Man this is the way to play ACES HIGH II :banana:
I still get a little shutter on my X & Y axes...is that normal? :huh
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Without your pic schematics I would be sending the Steak back to the manufacture.... :D Thank You 4 your help.. :salute Man this is the way to play ACES HIGH II :banana:
I still get a little shutter on my X & Y axes...is that normal? :huh
I'm not sure what you mean by "a little shutter". Do you mean you notice something while you're flying? Or that you see the numbers jumping around while your on the clipboard mapping screen? If the numbers are jumping, I'd try calibrating first, but then would suspect the stick is wearing out, which they do.
If the stick is wearing out, that's what i use the 2 Year Replacement plan for. Honestly, the Saitek X52 is the only product I've found, ever, where the 2 Year Replacement plan is a good value. I'm sure there are others, but I've never personally used it on anything else. I'm on my 6th or 7th X52. I paid for the first one, and I've paid to extend the 2 year plan a few times.
Another thing I like to do, is put the little CD case "washer" above the spring, to tighten the stick up a bit. I found out how to do that through youtube.
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in the Down Forward view of the cockpit, i have noticed my graphical joystick oscillating slightly when there is pressure in any of the axis(not dead center). maneuvering and gunnery still seems smooth.
i know it is the hardware. does anybody else see this in their joystick?
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I enjoy the versatility of the X52, but I've had a lot of durability problems with them. I've burned through 4 of them in 4 years time. 2 Of which I had to pay for. Also I'm not really keen on the light touch to the X52 stick. It's a little too light.
Currently using the X52 throttle with a logitech XTreme 3D pro stick. The logitech stick has a good feel and a decent amount of buttons but not enough to really substitute for the X52 stick.
It's still preferable though to purchasing another X52.
Though if money were not an option I'd just get another saitek.
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Logitech 3D was the worst stick I ever had for a flight sim, so anything you get will be a step up. I recommend not to touch anything from Logitech. CH stuff is probably the best but I am not sure it is worth the price. Saitek is much lower quality than CH, but also much cheaper and gives better value for money - I had only 1 Saitek stick very long ago, so my experience with them is limited. It was good until it crocked 6 months later.
It's odd so many people are reporting issues with the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. I picked one up on sale at the local Wal-Mart a few years ago and it's served me through many flight hours with nary a qualm. I've never found the number of buttons lacking, even when playing IL-2 (which has rather more "critical" functions to map, with complex engine management.)
In my experience Logitech equipment is nigh bulletproof. My Logitech wireless laser mouse has been dropped on a hard tile floor about once a month like clockwork since I got it, and it still functions flawlessly. Perhaps you guys just yank your sticks a little too hard :D
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Got a G940 last week, love it. Worth every penny.
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After 5 yrs of playing I've only ever used the Saitek ST290 pro after about 3 yrs the hat switch started to go bad. So i went to wally world and bought another. Total money spent 40$. If we talk about headset that's another story destroyed 3 or 4 sets.
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Another fan of the X-52. Two and a half years on mine with a respite for about three months. Never a problem. I do not blame my lack of ability on the X-52. Although it has a twisty function, that can be disabled. I did just that when I added Saitek pedals last spring. While CH seems to have a large fan base here, I just couldn't justify the price of the full set - and with CH you HAVE to get pedals at the start, unless you're adept at using the keyboard for rudder control. I did try CH once and found it too large for my hand - the X-52 is adjustable. I'm not sure if, with practice, I might have gotten past that. I can't say which is better, just that I bought the Saitek because of its price point and have been happy with it ever since.
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I have this old Saitek Cyborg Graphite. Nifty little thing, my brother gave it to me. Its probably in excess of 7 years old, and the only broken parts are the hat switch and the main trigger. Otherwise, it does its job :aok
thats not a twisty, im using one do you manuely move your rudder?
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I think the best stick is the one that suits your needs. Ive used just about everything besides logitechs sticks. There are definately sticks out there with a higher price tag, and longer life spans.
But, try out different sticks find what suits and works best for you. There are quite a few good players out there that dont even use joysticks, so I think it really all boils down to what works for you.
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Microsoft Precision Pro! I use the mouse in my left hand for throttle work and views (I use mouse look).
Of all the joysticks I've tried... I don't like the feel of the Saiteks. I like the smooth firm feel of the MS Pre Pro. Logitechs also have the right feel (as long as they're not Force Feedback) as does the one Thrustmaster I tried (T1600). Haven't tried CH sticks.
No comments on reliability. My MS stick is 10 years old and still strong. There are a few minor mechanical faults, but that's understandable given the amount of abuse I've put it through. Presumably, the Thrustmaster T1600 uses Hall Effect sensors, so it should be VERY reliable over the long haul.
If I ever get a new flight set, it will probably be the T1600 + mouse + CH rudder.
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If the stick is wearing out, that's what i use the 2 Year Replacement plan for. Honestly, the Saitek X52 is the only product I've found, ever, where the 2 Year Replacement plan is a good value. I'm sure there are others, but I've never personally used it on anything else. I'm on my 6th or 7th X52. I paid for the first one, and I've paid to extend the 2 year plan a few times.
Another thing I like to do, is put the little CD case "washer" above the spring, to tighten the stick up a bit. I found out how to do that through youtube.
:O 6th or 7th joystick?? Did they just send you out a new stick? do you have to mail them the old one back? :headscratch:
Few comments on the logitech sound familiar, its weird they make such rubbish sticks when they make arguable the best pound for pound mouse controllers? :headscratch:
There are a few minor mechanical faults, but that's understandable given the amount of abuse I've put it through.
Dogg's thread might be of interest to you if you haven't already seen it.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280432.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280432.0.html)
This X52 owner always makes me lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cm7KhbKpfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cm7KhbKpfM)
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Dogg's thread might be of interest to you if you haven't already seen it.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280432.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280432.0.html)
Just checked. Good link, but my problem is just a slightly loose stick in the roll and yaw (twist) axes. A small deadzone takes care of it.
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thats not a twisty, im using one do you manuely move your rudder?
Do note I did post that on Dec. 4th of last year.
I use my A and D keys for rudder, as well as my # pad for my views. It's not the best, but it works for me.
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(http://snpi.dell.com/sna/images/products/mlrg/A3033826.jpg)
:aok :joystick:
3 years of successful :airplane: with it.
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If you want a stick that looks cool and may or may not break on you within a year, go with an X52. If you want a stick that will last forever, go with a CH Fighterstick.
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I use a saitek AV8R-01, not many buttons though and I still need to hit Q and W for flaps. Works for me though
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After 5 yrs of playing I've only ever used the Saitek ST290 pro after about 3 yrs the hat switch started to go bad. So i went to wally world and bought another. Total money spent 40$. If we talk about headset that's another story destroyed 3 or 4 sets.
Same with me, been usin the same Saitek ST290 that I got from wal-mart a year ago, just recently added some CH pedals to my setup.
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Logitech 3d still going strong.
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W7LPNRICK you've been flying with that logitech for how long?
How many hours a tour?
Talk to me after you've flown with that stick daily for 3 years or more.
Then we'll see if your still a fan.
All too often I've had people that flew AH for 1 - 3 months then the pots started spiking.
That being said I do believe that Logitech is trying to get the problem sorted.
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Had a logitec extreme and was great until I wore it out and then wore out a second one. :uhoh Cheap but no rebuilding those.
Had my CH Combat stick over a year and love it. Three times as much but lots of buttons and stays calibrated. Need to get some pedals and I'll be set. :rock
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I'm prolly the only person here who uses this setup?
http://www.flightlink.com/hardware/rotorwing/index.html
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W7LPNRICK you've been flying with that logitech for how long?
How many hours a tour?
Talk to me after you've flown with that stick daily for 3 years or more.
Then we'll see if your still a fan.
All too often I've had people that flew AH for 1 - 3 months then the pots started spiking.
That being said I do believe that Logitech is trying to get the problem sorted.
I've had the stick for several months and IMO it is already far superior to my Saitek 290 pro in almost every way. I'm not having the typical problems I've read about with older Logitechs.
Anyway, it feels better in my hand. Is smoother in flight and easier to adjust the sensitivity than I experienced with either 290 pro's I wore-out. Don't think I'm a newb, maybe more than you, but it's all relative. :salute
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Sir you missed my point entirely. I don't think your a newb at all.
Its just for the last 5 years I'd not heard of maybe 1 logitech stick in 20 that would last beyond 6 months without problems.
Now, if they have fixed their problems, great, truly I'm glad to hear it.
But they are going to have to prove it in order to get their reputation back.
And I'm sorry but a few months just isn't enough.
Not when you have MS Sidewinders doing 6 - 10 years.
CH gear doing similar, and even Saitek x52's getting 4 - 5 years.
As to how it feels, that is all subjective, that's your choice, and I'd never disagree with that.
Thats why I said what I said.
"Talk to me after you've flown with that stick daily for 3 years or more.
Then we'll see if your still a fan."
And that is truly what I meant, and ALL I meant.
The test of time is the only way Logitech can prove its fixed its problems and deserves its good reputation back.
And not with just a single stick, but with 4 out of 5 sticks across the board.
Logitech earned its bad reputation with what seemed a never ending stream of bad pots and problems.
I've lost count of how many people with logitech sticks came to me for solutions.
And all too often there really was no solution to give them.
Time and Time again people came into the game with a logitech stick, and they'd defend it just like you are.
Then 3 - 5 months later they'd be posting asking for what the best joystick out there.
Only time will tell which one of us is correct. And times on my side. :)
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Logitech,Saitek,CH It doesn't really matter . What matters is what is best for you ?
Money-space-rudders/no rudders all play into it.The best thing if you haven't had any exp. with any of them , is to ask which one they have and does it work. weigh the pros and cons and make a choice from that. just one mans opinion not meant to upset anyone !
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Sir you missed my point entirely. I don't think your a newb at all.
Its just for the last 5 years I'd not heard of maybe 1 logitech stick in 20 that would last beyond 6 months without problems.
Only time will tell which one of us is correct. And times on my side. :)
Not offended at all, in fact you made my point. I believe these joy-stick manufacturers are like most manufacturers. They make & sell junk, until loss of sales to a better deal makes them improve their product. I don't know for sure, but I would bet that junk 290 pro I had has already been upgraded, so if someone told me they fixed the Saitek, I could not argue with authority. I simply stated I had to in a row that were junk. In another similar thread another flyer was bragging about his Saitek...so? I guess, take it out of the box, in the store, handle it fore a few minutes. If it feels like cheap thin & hallow injection moldings, pic something else. It's good to hear recommends, but to me unless there's a recent positive, with a couple over time...buyer beware. :joystick:
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All of my stuff is Saitek - stick, throttle and pedals.
For all the horror stories; I love em all and have had no problems save for rudder spiking (pre-pedals) which was fixed with a powered USB hub.
That said... I did upgrade from a joystick they stopped manufacturing roughly 10 years ago. Its all relative. ;)
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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_88I8A8ykf7E/SvWekjQENlI/AAAAAAAAAA0/NF4buArz2zY/s400/Saitek%2BX65%2BPro%2BFlight%2BSystem.jpg&imgrefurl=http://helicoptersimulatorhardware.blogspot.com/2009/11/saitek-and-flight-simulation-hardware.html&h=294&w=400&sz=17&tbnid=fFu9veg-cZtZQM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsaitek%2Bx65&hl=en&usg=__XRzWlU3DQS9HLNDY-uz7FfJbITw=&ei=Jf11S-qjOoOuswPTqNzLCA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image&ved=0CDAQ9QEwBQ
It kinda boils down to "How much do you wanna spend....?" :aok me? $29 :joystick: