Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: DMVIAGRA on February 01, 2012, 05:34:30 PM
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(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/tnelson3_bucket/Untitled1.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/tnelson3_bucket/Untitled2.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/tnelson3_bucket/Untitled3.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/tnelson3_bucket/Untitled4.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/tnelson3_bucket/Untitled5.jpg)
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Absolutely amazing that plane was able to land, but I can't help think what happened to the waist and ball turret gunners.
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Looks like it ran into Lusche.
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Absolutely amazing that plane was able to land, but I can't help think what happened to the waist and ball turret gunners.
If that was the same B-17 that I had read about that took a direct hit from flak, the gunners in the rear of the plane (save the tail gunner) didn't survive.
ack-ack
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If that was the same B-17 that I had read about that took a direct hit from flak, the gunners in the rear of the plane (save the tail gunner) didn't survive.
ack-ack
how could they... im very surprised that wind speed wasnt able to snap the tail off amazing
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what can I say, the B-17 was one tough fother mucker. I've seen pictures of them coming back with almost no rudder, half of a wing, shot out control surfaces, and nose cones blown off. and of course the sad story of the ball gunner who had the hydraulic system blown out and they couldnt raise him back up. unfortunantly they had to land right on him ( the gear wouldnt lower either )
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Yes they are widely publicized as being pictures of 8th Air Force B-17 "Sweet Pea" but that is because of the faulty reporting of Andy Rooney who at the time picked it up off the AP and ran with it. This airplane was actually a B-17 of the 2nd Bomb Group 15th Air Force out of Italy. You can read specifics of the event in the book "Shot at and Missed" by Jack R. Myers.
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what can I say, the B-17 was one tough fother mucker. I've seen pictures of them coming back with almost no rudder, half of a wing, shot out control surfaces, and nose cones blown off. and of course the sad story of the ball gunner who had the hydraulic system blown out and they couldnt raise him back up. unfortunantly they had to land right on him ( the gear wouldnt lower either )
Yeah...That story sticks with me and breaks my heart every time I think about it....I watched the special that reporter did and he talked about that.
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what can I say, the B-17 was one tough fother mucker. I've seen pictures of them coming back with almost no rudder, half of a wing, shot out control surfaces, and nose cones blown off. and of course the sad story of the ball gunner who had the hydraulic system blown out and they couldnt raise him back up. unfortunantly they had to land right on him ( the gear wouldnt lower either )
The B-17 ball turret didn't raise up. The B-24 turret did retract into the fuselage but you can enter and exit with it extended -- and in fact that was the normal procedure. The gear on the B-17 is electric so a hydraulic failure wouldn't be an issue (other than no brakes and the cowl flaps would't operate).
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Lots of stories in the book I mentioned about dropping severely injured men out the side hoping they would get more immediately medical treatment. I never heard a story of anyone that survived that though.
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The B-17 ball turret didn't raise up. The B-24 turret did retract into the fuselage but you can enter and exit with it extended -- and in fact that was the normal procedure. The gear on the B-17 is electric so a hydraulic failure wouldn't be an issue (other than no brakes and the cowl flaps would't operate).
i forget the exact details but the story was he was in the ball turret and they couldnt get him out of the ball turret and it stayed down with him in it. the gear wouldnt lower and they landed on him
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One the scared me the most was in the "Secret weapons of the luftwaffe" manual - a B-17 dropped its bombs and another B-17 was a few hundred feet below it taking one of the aileron's off causing the B-17 to go down.
I've seen another photo of a B-17 where a 500lb bomb went through one of the wings, I can't imagine the horror that went through the crews that dropped on either run.
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After a little bit of research, that B-17 in the first couple of pictures posted by DMViagra, the damage wasn't a result of a flak burst. It was from a collision with an enemy plane.
The B-17 was named "All American" and flew with the 414th Squadron, 97BG and piloted by Lieutenant Kenneth R. Bragg.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/waist1.gif)
Same photo as #2 in DMViagra's post but from a slightly different angle
A picture of All American in flight.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/torn-in2.gif)
Another shot of it on the ground
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/torn-up.gif)
One more picture showing the damage to the left side.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/b17allamerican.jpg)
The other B-17 seems to be this B-17 that took a direct hit over Debrecen, Hungary, killing or wounding close to half the crew but made it back to England where it broke apart on landing.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg)
ack-ack
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Looks liek the waist gunners may have had a chance.....did they make it?
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One the scared me the most was in the "Secret weapons of the luftwaffe" manual - a B-17 dropped its bombs and another B-17 was a few hundred feet below it taking one of the aileron's off causing the B-17 to go down.
I've seen another photo of a B-17 where a 500lb bomb went through one of the wings, I can't imagine the horror that went through the crews that dropped on either run.
This series of photographs was taken during a bombing run on May 19, 1944 over Berlin. It shows a mishap which occurred when the bombs from one Flying Fortress struck and damaged one of the horizontal stabilizers of the tail of a B-17 which was beneath it. The damaged B-17 went straight down and crashed, killing all onboard.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/bombed_tail1.jpg)
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/bombed_tail2.jpg)
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/bombed_tail3.jpg)
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/bombed_tail4.jpg)
ack-ack
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It always amazes me to see how badly damaged these planes can get, yet still return home.
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I remember reading up on "Old 666" (I believe this is the right story), and before it was junked and then used as the special bomber with added gun - It was dropping bombs and one of the bombs took a direct flak hit and it damaged 9 (?) other bombers. Not sure how many went down. Can't really remember.
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I remember reading up on "Old 666" (I believe this is the right story), and before it was junked and then used as the special bomber with added gun - It was dropping bombs and one of the bombs took a direct flak hit and it damaged 9 (?) other bombers. Not sure how many went down. Can't really remember.
No, Old 666 was a plane much like the "Leper Colony" in 12 I clock high. A bunch of troublemakers. It went on a mission and everyone came back with a DFC and 2 people came back with a MOH (one posthumously)
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It always amazes me to see how badly damaged these planes can get, yet still return home.
And then those planes that went down from a single bullet. Or the Ki-43 that shot down two B-24s in row. With the MGs only.
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No, Old 666 was a plane much like the "Leper Colony" in 12 I clock high. A bunch of troublemakers. It went on a mission and everyone came back with a DFC and 2 people came back with a MOH (one posthumously)
No, the Old 666 wasn't like the Leper Colony and crewed by "troublemakers". Old 666 was a beat up B-17 had a reputation for being a cursed bomber as it would always return with heavy damage. It was grounded and being stripped for parts when someone had mentioned to Zeamer about Old 666 lying in salvage and Zeamer needing a bomber had it towed out of the salvage yard and fixed it up.
The crew of Old 666 weren't troublemakers and weren't assigned to Old 666 as punishment like the Leper Colony crew in 12 O'clock High.
ack-ack
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12 O'clock High.
ack-ack
good movie
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I'm curious about the plane that took the flak burst. Do you think they stayed with the plane because the tail gunner was trapped in the tail by the damage? Seems like they would have bailed out of that thing as soon as they got across the channel.
Amazing pictures.
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This series of photographs was taken during a bombing run on May 19, 1944 over Berlin. It shows a mishap which occurred when the bombs from one Flying Fortress struck and damaged one of the horizontal stabilizers of the tail of a B-17 which was beneath it. The damaged B-17 went straight down and crashed, killing all onboard.
I met the ball-gunner from the airplane taking the photographs -- he lives in the Burbank area. They didn't see any chutes from the aircraft that went down.
I talked to a few different vets that dropped badly wounded crew over Europe in the hopes they would get medical treatment -- at least one of them survived the war.
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I'm curious about the plane that took the flak burst. Do you think they stayed with the plane because the tail gunner was trapped in the tail by the damage? Seems like they would have bailed out of that thing as soon as they got across the channel.
Amazing pictures.
I think they stayed with the plane because it was still flyable and could possibly get them home rather than face an uncertain fate if they bailed out.
ack-ack
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:salute to the brave men who died, who with white knuckles flew it home, and those who had to clean it all up afterward. :salute
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my great grand father was a B17 tail gunner he bailed over normandy and didnt come back his body was found in a tree in 1949 he was killed due to a unknown cause but most say that his chute went bad. i still have his gloves for his hands (they survived) those images bring chills down my spine.
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After a little bit of research, that B-17 in the first couple of pictures posted by DMViagra, the damage wasn't a result of a flak burst. It was from a collision with an enemy plane.
The B-17 was named "All American" and flew with the 414th Squadron, 97BG and piloted by Lieutenant Kenneth R. Bragg.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/waist1.gif)
Same photo as #2 in DMViagra's post but from a slightly different angle
A picture of All American in flight.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/torn-in2.gif)
Another shot of it on the ground
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/torn-up.gif)
One more picture showing the damage to the left side.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/b17allamerican.jpg)
The other B-17 seems to be this B-17 that took a direct hit over Debrecen, Hungary, killing or wounding close to half the crew but made it back to England where it broke apart on landing.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg)
ack-ack
I don't like to call anyone wrong but research the name "Sweet Pea".
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Edit - Reading Trouble on my part, Ack-Ack makes reference to "the other B-17" and is referring only to the first couple of pics in the original post.
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What about the B17 that was rammed in the tail by an enemy fighter but still managed to land? The pilots had to use the throttles to steer the thing.