Author Topic: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?  (Read 13230 times)

Offline Bodhi

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2008, 08:40:45 AM »
Game yes, name a plane in reality that can lower and raise it's landing gear as fast?  Drop to use as a brake yes, drop-raise-drop-raise in a few seconds no. Nothing to do with knowing your aircraft. Your taking advantage of the gamey flight modeling. As if the uber flaps aren't easy enough.

Anyway, when ever I see flaps out landing gear down can't help but laugh, as It's a great energy state indicator for time to pull verticle drop down and nail the dweeb.


<S>...-Gixer




Just an fyi, the F4u can drop it's gear at most speeds.  The tail stays in, and the mains will come down to the point at which an unloading valve will prevent any extension that would cause damage.  The same goes to the flaps.  They can be set to any setting, but will extend and retract on their own as they too equipped with a system that prevents extension due to damage.


As for the way I fly, I almost always fly the F4u, and I do not "pump" the gear up and down.  I drop them as I need to move into the energy state I see fit.  After I choose the fight, I either commit to it or not, because as you said, it can really unload a ton of "e" at which point I am committed and need to make the first shot or two.  Thats the way I like to fight.  I do not last a super long time anymore, but I kill a lot more than I die, and I generally have fun. 

Seems to me, there are a lot more aspects in the game that are much more "gamey" than what you interpret the above to be.  Like it was said before, standing on your rudder, or entering 9 G turns at 400 kts ias is far more gamey that raising or lowering your gear in an aircraft that is equipped to do that.



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Offline Murdr

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2008, 08:46:10 AM »
Actually your plane has more drag at idle than with the engine turned off. Turning your engine off in a dogfight is just dumb.
:aok

Offline Bucky73

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2008, 08:52:12 AM »
Did ya ever think that maybe they were just saving gas?


sheeeeesh :D

Offline CAP1

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2008, 09:09:39 AM »
Did ya ever think that maybe they were just saving gas?


sheeeeesh :D
:rofl :rofl

SO THAT'S THE CATCH?? the cartoon airplanes are free, but ya hafta buy the cartoon gas?? :O :rofl :rofl
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2008, 12:30:36 PM »
:rofl :rofl

SO THAT'S THE CATCH?? the cartoon airplanes are free, but ya hafta buy the cartoon gas?? :O :rofl :rofl

Yeah, it's $14.95 a month for unlimited cartoon gas.  As usual the cartoon aircraft are free.   :)
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Offline SIK1

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2008, 01:18:13 PM »
I have run out of gas a few times in the middle of a fight while burning the left wing tank in the f4u-1. When I get into a fight the little things like what fuel tank I'm burning seems to get forgoten.
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Offline Tumor

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2008, 03:24:45 PM »
Ya got "gamers".

Ya got "simmers".

Otherwise, there's no real argument.
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Offline hitech

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2008, 03:09:08 PM »
Quote
I performed many tests of this kind, and presented one to HTC as a prime example of the randomness of prop drag from plane to plane. We know that the P-51D has a much lower drag coefficient than the La-7. Yet, when you do the deceleration test with max drag of the prop (low pitch), the Mustang decelerates faster than the La-7 with the engines at idle. However, if you set high pitch, the La-7 decelerates much quicker than the Mustang. Thus, we know that that prop drag at low pitch is not modeled (and HiTech has stated this to be true). It is what it is.... I compiled a ranking of aircraft prop drag on some fighters.

We have stated nothing of the sort.


Offline Widewing

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2008, 06:52:31 PM »
We have stated nothing of the sort.

I should have stated that prop drag is modeled as an approximation.

Dale, do you remember our conversation on propeller drag? You said, "As I said in the beginning. It is do to prop drag, also understand that prop drag in AH is a close approximation, and isn't really a detail that we spend a lot of time on with each plane."

From this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,192682.60.html

Comparing power-off deceleration of the Spit16 vs the Spit14, we find that the higher drag Spit14 (greater flat plate area and a 5 blade prop) decelerates slower than the Spit16 (clipped wings, 4 blade prop). The weight difference between the two is nil. That leaves drag as the difference, and prop drag is "a close approximation". Is this a fair assessment?

I'm not complaining about it, just pointing out that it does effect how quickly (or not) aircraft bleed air speed at 1g. Knowing how quickly you can burn off E can provide a slight edge.

My regards,

Widewing

Edit: Had my Spitfire marks reversed....
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 06:57:23 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline RedAgony

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2015, 06:14:06 PM »
Why cut your engine when you can just reduce throttle?

Also, being from the Army, I guess it's assumed that we are flying at lower altitudes than the fixed wing guys-- that's why power reduction or increase isn't mentioned. 

1st  Wings Level then
2nd  Use IVSI to establish a climb

afterwards adjust collective and trim.  TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS!

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2015, 06:33:35 PM »
1. Cutting engine doesn't make you roll faster or better, infact, if you arent careful you will kill even more E than you intended and can cause the fight to shift E states. It doesnt make you turn better and it doesn't make the plane perform better. I've been playing for 9-10 years. Trust me, I've tried it all, it doesn't make a difference and in many times hurts the engine cutter even more.




The only thing cutting engine does is help the plane flip over if at critical stall speed if you begin to go into a flat spin, at this point cutting the engine will help you stabalize out of the the flat spin, although it is a major E killer and most of the time puts you at a disadvantage. However, in the F4Us or spits, you some times still cannot get out of them upside down.

2. Rolling out gear in a F4U or any other plane is stupid. It critically kills your E. Against a good pilot they will pick up on that and shift toward E style which will end up in you stalling out as they roll over on top of you. The key in a fight isn't to give up all of your E by using these silly tactics, it is to measure speed with your ACM and plane performance to set up a shot. Cutting engines and rolling gear out tell me you've given up all your E states so I lighten up on the stick and and grab E while you are majorly slowing down. This allows me to roll over the top of you as you don't have the E to pull up and over any more.


DONT DO IT. IF YOU FLY THE PLANE CORRECTLY WITH THE CORRECT ACM YOU WILL ACHIEVE BETTER FLYING AND WILL BEAT ENGINE CUTTERS ALL DAY.

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Offline Obie303

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2015, 06:35:08 PM »
Try flying a Hurri 1 with a negative G turn.  You can't run from anything, so forcing an overshoot is a great tool in a very limited toolbox of tricks.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2015, 08:16:03 PM »
Try flying a Hurri 1 with a negative G turn.  You can't run from anything, so forcing an overshoot is a great tool in a very limited toolbox of tricks.

But turning off your engine to force the bandit to overshoot or shutting off the engine at the top of a zoom climb isn't a "great tool" to have in a limited toolbox of tricks.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2015, 08:42:37 PM »
Also, being from the Army, I guess it's assumed that we are flying at lower altitudes than the fixed wing guys-- that's why power reduction or increase isn't mentioned. 

1st  Wings Level then
2nd  Use IVSI to establish a climb

afterwards adjust collective and trim.  TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS!

If you are in a battle damaged aircraft then you have just discovered the reason why a Backup Artificial Horizon Indicator is REQUIRED to be installed AND operational prior to all flights!   :aok

bumping a 7 year old thread to add that........ oooooo kay

Offline JOACH1M

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Re: Cutting your engine: Valid tactic or Gaming the Game?
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2015, 08:46:59 PM »
bumping a 7 year old thread to add that........ oooooo kay
And he's an army pilot  :) :noid
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