Field of View bug in the 4 new ac models

[Hooligan]

This was already briefly touched upon by widewing in his thread.

In all 4 of the new aircraft models, when setting views you cannot move the origin of the view point as far forward as you can in the other aircraft models.  This is most obvious in the diminished 6-view of the F6F.  Another fairly good example is in the side views (i.e. “view look left” and “view look right”) in the IL2.  Looking out the side of the IL2 you are only able to move the view forward enough so that the edge of the horizontal armor is in the center of the screen and thus the rear half of the side view is blocked.  You used to be able to get a good side view from the IL2 by moving the view origin forward of this point so that you were looking through the window instead of having half the view obstructed by the armor plate.

Another example:  if you try to position the forward view as far forward as possible, the position limit is much farther away from the gunsight than in older models.  For example, comparing the forward views of the following pairs:  FM2/F6F and Me109f/Me262, you will see that in the old models the gunsight is about 2 to 4 times as large when the view if positioned fully forward.  This would indicate that in the new ac models the forward limit on view position is about 2 to 4 times as far from the gunsight.

Hooligan

[BaldEagl]

The same thing happened when the Wirble was introduced and the Osti was re-done.  Maybe limited head movement is the new standard?  I hope not.

[Krusty]

The older models are not all very realistic, with regards to head position/movement. Maybe HTC is actually modeling the player being strapped into the seat, instead of climbing all over like a 3-year-old in a parked car?

[Motherland]

The older models are not all very realistic, with regards to head position/movement. Maybe HTC is actually modeling the player being strapped into the seat, instead of climbing all over like a 3-year-old in a parked car?

Yeah... you can move really unrealistically far in the old models... seems your only limited by the cockpit glass. In the 110 you can shift your head up to a point where I'd imagine you'd have to be standing, or darn close to it, to get it in.

[Widewing]

The older models are not all very realistic, with regards to head position/movement. Maybe HTC is actually modeling the player being strapped into the seat, instead of climbing all over like a 3-year-old in a parked car?

I've sat in an F6F-5 (riding brakes when being towed) and you can see behind the aircraft IF you get close to the inside of the canopy. What we have now is unrealistic.


My regards,

Widewing

[Hooligan]

Actually the rearward visibility in the game is in general too limited.  See the following thread

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,46181.15.html

Some of hitech’s comments follow:

Anyone intersted in my view?

I only have about 20 hours of fighting real planes.

Including real p51's.

In every plane i've faught in ive been able to see the end of the right horz stab while turning around to the left.

One of the first thing I do in a plane that im going to be fighting in is find a hand hold for my left hand. To aid in turning my body.

Turn around and make sure that my sholder straps are not preventing any movement. and that I can see sky on the far side of the veritcal stab.

Turning around under g load does not pose any problems what so ever. But your mussles do work much harder

Ive found it much harder to look at some one straight above me. (realative to the plane) than any other position, this is do to the fact that when under g's you can not tilt your head, it has to stay right on top of your shoulders. Was in a looping fight once with the bogie right out my head, I had my head leaning slighty back and doing about 2 g's on the down side, when about 30 nose below the horizon i snatched the stick to around 6 g's. My head went back so my face was looking straght up. It was totaly unmovable until I came over the top, and I could relax the g's and pull my head back up with my left hand, once you have done this you will NEVER make that mistake again. The next day it felt like I had been lifting a bar bell with my teath . My neck mussles were very sore.

In all my fights ,there have only been 2 times ive had to think about or lost sight of the other plane.

Once on a head on merge we were about a mile and a half apart, and both unloading to get speed for the initial cross, as I unloaded the plane crossed over a conopy rail, I move my head to look above the rail, and it took a good 5 secs to reaquire him, was poopting bricks until i did.
Btw this was a very hazy day with a scud layer.

The other was right after a merge where we past left to left and he had gotten a fair left hand lead turn on me.  I did a right hand displacment roll causing him to cross under my tail briefly and forcing me to switch from a left hand view to a right hand view of him. He came right out where I expected him so I continued the roll,it put me right behind him, and the fight was over.

Tracking airplanes in a real fight is so much easier than any pc sim can portray with a view system, that puting hindernces in like, no six view, would be by far less realistic when you view things from a over all perception of view VS an each individual view.


Im a novice when it comes to flying under G's. When I observe the real fighter pilots pull g's and move around under hi g's it's like the g's are hardly there for them.

Most ive ever pulled was 7.5 for a brief time.

When fighting in  an L39  we did some sustained tail chacing at around 5.5 to 6.5 for at least a min. This is the only time I had to realy work at fighting g's. Would relax for a sec and would need to strain and grunt back out of the tunnel / grey out.

btw grey out is realy cool if you havn't experenced it, you see perfectly fine but the hole world goes black and white.

It realy does amuse me when people bring up the sugestion of sholder straps being tight, it's not a way you would ever fight, and was one of the first things I was taught when getting in a plane to go fight with.

HiTech

[Widewing]

The older models are not all very realistic, with regards to head position/movement. Maybe HTC is actually modeling the player being strapped into the seat, instead of climbing all over like a 3-year-old in a parked car?

Let me address this again, with a different slant.

First, how many military aircraft have you flown in Krusty?

I've taken rides in AT-6s, and even with the shoulder harness on, I could still pivot far enough to stick my head outside of the cockpit.

A fighter pilot isn't strapped in nearly immobile like a F1 driver. He can and will move all over the cockpit to see around any obstruction. Hooligan is correct, our ability to move around the cockpit in the game is often very limited. Pilots who flew the F6F thought that rear vision was adequate. At the Joint fighter conference, pilots voiced the same view, but suggested that a bubble canopy would improve rear vision. What we have now is long way from adequate. I'm quite sure HTC will remedy the issue with the F6F.


My regards,

Widewing

[Hooligan]

Apparently view position rearwards is reduced also since you can no longer adjust the forward view of the F6F back and down sufficiently to see the engine temperature gauge.

Hooligan

[Soulyss]

While I agree that the pilots were not strapped in tightly during missions.  If they were there wouldn't be so many instances of pilots heads striking the gun sight during ditches and crash landings.  Another thing to keep in mind is that the whole body wouldn't slide forward as it seemed to be previously modeled.  Even with leaning forward the body still has to pivot at the waist.

I felt that the previous modeling was a little too generous, however I do think the current limits are too restrictive.

[Chilli]

   Wonderful job on the remodels.  I agree the view limits are off.  I also noticed that a pilot wound in the Nik2 resulted in only half of my cockpit splattered (just wondering if it was by design).

Now, for my sneaky attempt at getting an update on the oil hit     What do you think of this for hellcat (notice translucent properties still allow forward view - pictured is wildcat I believe)?

[SectorNine50]

I don't think that's the hellcat...

[Chilli]

  (notice translucent properties still allow forward view - pictured is wildcat I believe)?

The oil hit bitmap looks mostly the same in hellcat.  In fact, it works well with mostly all models.  There are some differences that I have found with the Pony and F4U models.  An added plus on the F4U is the oil covered nose section.

[Krusty]

Wow... such harsh comments.

Let me clarify my statement. In regards to the Mossie's head positions, the Ju88s, planes like the 110s, and so forth where you can clearly move the head position way out of normal, either up/down/left/right/front or back, it's unlimited within the scope of the canopy (and sometimes outside of it -- don't ask).

In regards to that, many early AH models have unrealistic view constraints. I was guessing (only guessing) that one possible explanation for the views being limited in the new planes was that HTC was deciding to take a stand and limit these. I don't know that the F6F is incorrect, nor do I know that HTC's idea is correct. I'm just supposing they're taking a new stance with the standards they model.

As for the specs on these new standards -- that's something to take up with HTC.

[Widewing]

In regards to that, many early AH models have unrealistic view constraints.

Krusty, your claim is based upon what?


My regards,

Widewing

[Krusty]

The fact that you can move from one side of a 2-seat cockpit to the other side in some models, across the controls and the other seat. The fact that certain models have let you position your head OUTSIDE of the cockpit itself at various times (Ju88 did this for a while), and the fact that some of them let you slide around anywhere inside the internal dimensions without regard for pilot position or being strapped into a pilot's seat.

This, to me, falls under "unrealistic" -- as it is not something the pilot could do in the real thing.