Bf 109 Late G-K Radiators

[bustr]

Two of my squadmates asked me to see if I could find any information from Bf 109 airframe mechanics manuals about the wing radiator cutoff valves. I found a number of things but am confused.

1. The wing radiators were introduced with the Bf 109 F1. They had cutoff valves installed in the radiators but, were never hooked up for remote operation by the pilot.

2. This sorry affair stayed that way untill the late model G6 and G10/14 and K4. Supposedly the valves remote shutoff machinary was then a factory standardised installation process.

3. The Finns performed feild mods to allow their pilots to make use of these cutoff valves in the event of damage to a radiator. And supposidly the german squaderons were issued kits to do the same.

4. I've looked at as many 109G-K cockpit photos as I can. And as many manuals. I cannot see matching levers or valve handels anywhere in the cockpits as feild mods. The Finns described two matching pull levers mounted to the bottom left and right hand sides of the instrument panel.

5. From a K4 manual with a schematic of the cockpit there is a three way twist lever called: Kühlerklappenverstellung
Item no. 58
http://deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me%20109/109K-4Layout.jpg

Kühlerklappenverstellung
Kühler - radiator
klappen - valve
verstellung - direction valve

Item no. 49 from the K4 cockpit drawing.

Natzuggriff fur Farhwerk

Starting with the 109 F1 was a cable control for the coolant systems firewall mounted thermostat valve to either lock it open or allow the bimetal heat controller to respond the the hot glycol/water(stoff).

So is the three position handel (Kühlerklappenverstellung) in the K4 cockpit the control for the radiator shutoff valves?

With all the engine related automation in the 109's I would think this would have been just another automated emergency system controlled with two preassure sensative valves. Anyway I'm clueless to why proving these valves were ever enabled for the pilot to use.....

[Charge]

This is what Wiki says: In 1941 "cutoff" valves were introduced which allowed the pilot to shut down either wing radiator in the event of one being damaged; this allowed the remaining coolant to be preserved and the damaged aircraft returned to base. However, these valves were delivered to frontline units as kits, the number of which, for unknown reasons, was limited.[35] These cutoff valves were later factory standard fitting for Bf 109G[36] and K series.

I also remember reading that all 109s did not have these and mechanics scavenged these from written off planes which makes me think that they were indeed in short supply.
There has been discussion about this on this BBS before.

-C+

[Ardy123]

This is what Wiki says: In 1941 "cutoff" valves were introduced which allowed the pilot to shut down either wing radiator in the event of one being damaged; this allowed the remaining coolant to be preserved and the damaged aircraft returned to base. However, these valves were delivered to frontline units as kits, the number of which, for unknown reasons, was limited.[35] These cutoff valves were later factory standard fitting for Bf 109G[36] and K series.

I also remember reading that all 109s did not have these and mechanics scavenged these from written off planes which makes me think that they were indeed in short supply.
There has been discussion about this on this BBS before.

-C+

the 1941 time frame would be inline with what Bustr found, as 1941 would be the same time as the introduction of the F series 109s.
I have several 109 flight books (which I found on the internet) for both the K and the G. The problem is that my German (or should I say, "Ich spreche Deutsch ein bißchen")  is not up to par, so if anyone could please translate them, that would be helpful.

g3 manual http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techref/manuals/bf109g3.pdf
g6 u4 manual http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techref/manuals/bf109g6u4.pdf
K4 manual http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techref/manuals/k4_handbuch.pdf

[MiloMorai]

Two of my squadmates asked me to see if I could find any information from Bf 109 airframe mechanics manuals about the wing radiator cutoff valves. I found a number of things but am confused.

1. The wing radiators were introduced with the Bf 109 F1. They had cutoff valves installed in the radiators but, were never hooked up for remote operation by the pilot.

What is the structure under the wing and behind the starboard wheel well of this Bf109E? There is a similar one under the port wing.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yDfa5qU1jgJicOQkf4N2Ag

[Krusty]

What is the structure under the wing and behind the starboard wheel well of this Bf109E? There is a similar one under the port wing.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yDfa5qU1jgJicOQkf4N2Ag

The underwing radiators were significantly redesigned on the F-1, as compared to previous F models. They were wider, flatter, and took advantage of some aerodynamic principle I can't recall to suck air in better.

I believe he is looking up the specifics for shutoff valves on all post-E models, since they are all the same with regards to the radiator installation.

[beau32]

Bf-109 E


Bf-109 F


a lot of effort was invested in the new F model with an eye towards maximum aerodynamic efficiency, balanced against the cooling requirements of the high performance DB601 engine.  To that end, an entirely new coolant system was designed for the F, with a number of important changes:

-    The single, vulnerable coolant tank behind the spinner baseplate was replaced with a 38.6 liter oil tank, and two small coolant tanks were mounted on either side of the engine crankcase.

-    The radiators were lengthened and made more shallow, as discussed previously, as part of the drag reduction program.  In addition, the feed and return lines were moved to the same side of the unit to facilitate ease of repair.

-    The feed and supply routes were roughly the same as before; however, a feature not shown in the diagram below was the provision for fitting individual radiator shutoff valves in the feed tube to each radiator in order to shut one off in the event of combat damage.  Somehow, this never became a standard factory fit and these became highly prized items in the field (for obvious reasons!).
 

The coolant system remained largely unchanged from the F on through the K models.

From the 109 lair

[bustr]

Ardy,

The three manuals are for the following:

109G - general info.
109K - genral info
G6/U4 - How to install the MK108, MG131 and set thme up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

beau32,

The two pictures are from the 109E and 109F ground maintenance manuals.

I have the 109F 1&4 manual from 1941. It is written in Faktur script(black script) font. In the 1941 manual it has the second picture down. But, with a difference. You have a valve with no identification below the "Stbd Feed Line". I went back and used a Fraktr script alphabet to help me translate the name of the valve.

I apologise to my audience. I originaly translated the valve wrong. It is not a cut off valve. It is a drain valve.

Ablaßhan - ß = ss
Ablasshan - drain valve.
Abstellhahn - shutoff valve.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And from the 1943 Fin pilots handbook it seems the Finns were sharp about the modification and implemented it:
 
State Aircraft Factory 112
109G2 Flight Manual 1943.
Page -14-.

6. Cooling system

The radiator flaps are adjusted automatically by a thermostat
 (uses the fluid from the hydraullic system for operation).

Coolant tempurature in the outlet pipe: max 110C near the ground,
 at alttiude, falling according to given boilling curve.

If thermostat falls, or in special cases, the thermostat can
be disengaged, after which it must manually adjust the flaps.
The control lever is on the right in the cockpit. Thelever can
 be set to "open" (auf), "closed" (zu) or "off" (Ruhe), which<-----answers my original K4 cockpit three postiion lever question.
 means that the flaps stay where they are. "In automatic"
 (Automatik) position the thermostat controls the flap setting.

If either one of the liquid coolers is hit, the damged cooler
 must be disconnected from the system immediately by pulling the
 handles on the left and right in the forward part of the cockpit
 depending on which radiator was damaged.

Page -22-.

c.) Cooling System

If the aircraft is left outside in very cold conditions
(below -30C), you must drain the coolant.

The draining taps are on the radiator and you can open them   
from the outside with special fork wrenches.[/b]<---Ablasshan - drain valve.

Open the filler while draining the cooling system.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Based on the 109F-G  cooling system picture its obvious how the Finns setup the shutoff so a single pull accomplished it. Anywhere past the Primary Feed "T" you install toggle shutoff valves in the feed and retune lines parallel to each other so that a single cable can be linked to both.

So far I'm getting the sense this was a kit modification for the majority of applications. I cannot find any cockpit pictures with matching levers or even wire ring pulls under the dash board.

Again...sorry about the translation fubar.....

[Ardy123]

Guys I know where it is.
In the K4 cockpit diagram its marked as item #11 (kühlerabschaltung).

kühlerabschaltung = cooler cutoff.
kühler = cooler/radiator
abschaltung = cut off

here is a picture of a real 109 G2 cockpit. you can see the red pull handles on the dash board for pulling the radiator valves. There is one on the left and one on the right.



the airplane is Bf 109G-2/trop "White 3 II/JG27" serial number "14753"

[Karnak]

Spitfires with symmetrical radiators also had an automatic cutoff to close one off if it was holed.  In AH that would be for the Mk VIII, Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI.  The Mk I, Mk V and Seafire would not have this feature.

[bustr]

*11. Griff für Kühlerabchaltung<-----standardised single pull.

* nerin den ersten Flugzeugen <----roughly "not in the first aricraft"(K4 manual October 1944)


http://deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me%20109/109K-4Layout.jpg

From more that I can find they were issued as Kits untill the end of the war. The G2 manual will show two handels but in fact nothing was installed. The kit installed two valves with cables and handels. In the October/44 K4 manuals I have the pull handel (.11) can be seen. But with the (*) next to the item.

Ardy,

Send an email to these folks at Krufurst.org. The gentelman running the place seems to have access to alot of original info.

kurfurst@atw.hu

He might be able to tell you if the cutoff pull valve system was ever really more than a Kit feild mod.

[Ardy123]

*11. Griff für Kühlerabchaltung<-----standardised single pull.

Bustr,
I don't think thats not quite correct, if you look carefully, you will see that there are two handles labeled 11, not one, so wouldn't that be the double pull?

Sure, I'll send him an email, lets hope he gets back to me.

[MiloMorai]

I would be careful with what Kurfy has to say.

[bustr]

My eyes are mildly toast from looking at these manuals and pictures.

This is the relavent point from the manual.

*11. Griff für Kühlerabchaltung<-----standardised single pull.

* nerin den ersten Flugzeugen <----roughly "not in the first aricraft"(K4 manual October 1944)

We really are at the point you should present your wish to Hitech and take your chances on what he knows that we don't. So far it looks like the material available was not going to the factory production stores but into feils kits to retrofit active combaat aircraft.

Based on the amount of info we have so far, it's not enough to convice Hitech the valves were anything but a Ruestsaetze on high demand back order from every active 109 unit in the war. Probably factory post production delivery documents mentioning the valves in place.