Should the Spitfire Mk.XIV be clipped?

[Tank-Ace]

You do realize I never said it wasn't effective, right?



Answer me this: Do guns matter (that is, do you think they should have an effect on the ENY of the aircraft, or should it be purely preformance based)?

[bustr]

Not everyone can fly like a muppet. But, many average players land 2-3 kills by the nature and ease of use of thier gun package. The more rocks to spray at an oaktree, the more chances of knocking down an acorn.

Most players do not put the time into rides to learn the advantages of a given ride's performance for performance to make more of a difference than the irritating ability to spray and run away. Hand out G10's along with freeing the spit14 and the majority will run around canceling each others advanteges out by flying them innapropriatly for their performance strengths. Those who can will have at each other less disturbed.

How often do you worry that 3 high P51D are circling your furball? For the most part it's going to be 3 guys diving into your furball faster than they can manage anything but a passing tap on the trigger. It's that lone K4 I'm more concerned with if I see that 2 or 3 squads have members logged on. The spit14 would make it possible to equalise thier return to the perch or neutralise it. Or I get to watch the keystone cops conga line try to follow it up and around and back up and around and on and on. Why? Nothing else unperked has that K4 WEP to the stars from the deck besides a G14 almost and no neon dogpile sign on it's back.

[Guppy35]

One fundamental piece being left out of the discussion.  For as long as I've played online flight sims there hasn't been a German bird modeled correctly or nearly as well as an Allied bird, in particular the Spitfire. 

It's become ingrained in the game that the Spit somehow isn't fair and the idea of unperking the Spit 14, despite its far longer service life then the 109K4 would be like letting a wolf loose in a flock of sheep.

In the end what you'd have is a Spitfire that could catch the 109K or D9.  It's a harder bird to fly then the Merlin Spits.  If it were a free Spit I would imagine there would develop a group of Spit 14 drivers much like there has been a group of 109K drivers. 

When talking 109K drivers now, it's generally in reference to a guy who has spent the time to tame it to where it's such a potent weapon.  The Spit 14 would require the same.

It's not the Spit for a newbie as they'll try and fly it like a 9 or 16 and die in it.  I loved it when I was flying the Spit Vb during the scenario time frame.  I'd run into a Spit XIV now and then and they'd think they were going to eat me alive.  But of course they'd try and out turn the Vb and die.  The XIV isn't that kind of Spit.

By no means am I suggesting the K4 be perked like the XIV.  Just the opposite.  I wish they'd cut the XIV loose and see what happens.  If it becomes some sort of plague, the perk cost can always be restored.  But I'd about bet the house it wouldn't be a problem outside of a few guys who would live in it and really learn to use it.  But that applies to just about any bird in the end.

Personally I'd rather run into a good stick in the ride he enjoys as it means the fight will be better and the challenge that much tougher for me in a 38G.  I'm not going to run from any of them as I'd rather die in a good fight, then win one that was no challenge.

[Infidelz]

I can't resist hijacking this thread: My support for the bubble canopy clipped Spitfire Mk.XIV shall not waiver.
Infidelz.

 

[Karnak]

I would also like to say that there is a very false dichotomy that seems to be accepted, but that I reject.  There seems to be an assumption that there has to be an opposing Bf109 for a Spitfire to be allowed, but conversely there does not have to be an opposing Spitfire for a Bf109 to be allowed.  Whenever we speak of adding the Bf109G-6AS, Bf109G-14/AS or Bf109G-10, nobody says "Well, if we get the Bf109G-6/AS we'll need a Spitfire HF.Mk IX to match it."

[bozon]

Karnak, I agree about the attitude, but in practice such balance is not needed in the arenas at least. Every plane's matched opponent is itself flown by the other country. What is the opponent to the 262? another 262.

Generally, I can't see the fuss about un-perking planes. If anything, I think the game will benefit from having even more perked models. The cost can be symbolic, from 1-4 perks. Does anyone really cannot afford flying Spit 14 nearly exclusively? That is, unless he just logged into the arena for the first time? Perk points are garbage as it is, but I find it more interesting when they have a value. Yet, players save thousands of perk points that they spend on nothing, or simply have nothing to spend on.

When finally someone decides to cough some precious perks and roll out a perked ride, the crowd response is "A PERKED RIDE!! ZOMG!". If half the planes were perked, including many of the popular ones (P51D, 109K, 190D, La7) you would not see such an attitude. I stress that a perk price of "1" is sufficient.

[Karnak]

I wasn't saying balance was needed.  I don't think it is in the MA as the Bf109K-4 is explicitly and exactly balanced by the....Bf109K-4.

People seem to be saying that the Spitfire Mk XIV would need a Bf109 added to balance it if it were unperked and I absolutely reject that notion.

EDIT:

Given Lusche's data, the average player probably needs about ten to twenty sorties to afford a Spitfire Mk XIV. 

[Oldman731]

I wish they'd cut the XIV loose and see what happens. 

Yup.  It's the only Spit that is difficult to fly well, a good Allied counterpart of the K-4.

- oldman

[Butcher]

I wasn't saying balance was needed.  I don't think it is in the MA as the Bf109K-4 is explicitly and exactly balanced by the....Bf109K-4.

People seem to be saying that the Spitfire Mk XIV would need a Bf109 added to balance it if it were unperked and I absolutely reject that notion.
EDIT:
Given Lusche's data, the average player probably needs about ten to twenty sorties to afford a Spitfire Mk XIV. 

Whoever is saying a 109 needs to be added to counter the Spit 14 probably hasn't ended his two week trial. The K4 does quite well at alt vs a Spit 14.

I reject any request to add another spitfire or Me109 to the game, there are enough sub variants that this argument can stop - its been going on since Air warrior and frankly stupid. There are plenty PLENTY of aircraft that need to be added in game before another variant of either get added.

[icepac]

I've never seen any of you guys flying at the historic altitudes for these planes.

[Karnak]

I've never seen any of you guys flying at the historic altitudes for these planes.

It isn't very fun most of the time.  I drug an La-7 up to 25,000ft once, he did a turn and a half before he realized how badly outclassed his La-7 was by my Spitfire Mk XIV up there, so he put the nose down and went back to the deck at 550mph.  That is the frustration, without any reason to keep the fight up there, low altitude is just a moment away whereas high altitude takes effort to reach.

[RTHolmes]

I've never seen any of you guys flying at the historic altitudes for these planes.

71sqn did a 4-mossie fighter sweep at 22k only yesterday


edit: I ended up ditching in the briny about 10miles off the enemy coast due to losing most of my control surfaces and fuel and was taken prisoner, hows that for historical realism?

[Guppy35]

I've never seen any of you guys flying at the historic altitudes for these planes.

What historic altitudes would those be?

[bustr]

After 10 years I've read almost every argument imaginable presented to free the spit14 and the discussions as usualy devolved into personal and partisan biases.

Since balance has been presented as the purpose for perking, it seemed resonable to present a counter that would be simple to initiate in the game. Many of this posts audience has the ability to counter the spit14 by other offerings rather than the specific I've presented due to your experience. So your time earned grade based biases have been your ultimate argument dominating this conversation as the reasons to not free the spit14.

I've attempted to advocate for those not as skilled, time in grade, or perk fortunate as yourselves by presenting the G10 as a worthy counter to the spit14. It is a canard to argue there is not a difference in the value and usability to the less talanted of being able to spray with a 20mm that shoots flatter, has explosive rounds, and more ammo than the 30mm. Or a similar airframe to the K4 that sources point to being more ACM freindly with the same engine and prop along with similare altitiude performance envelopes.

If we argue just the two foes, we see reasonably matched aircraft in the unique relm of the general MA gaming style. Or we can argue from our biases and Bozon's rarified perspective and ultimatly try to convice Hitech to perk everything except for the C47, Storch, and paratrooper's 45. So in WW2 did these aircraft, the spit14, G10, and K4 never run into each other because Churchill perked his best air superiority fighter that was developed to address german technology such as them? Or they it?

[Karnak]

71sqn did a 4-mossie fighter sweep at 22k only yesterday


edit: I ended up ditching in the briny about 10miles off the enemy coast due to losing most of my control surfaces and fuel and was taken prisoner, hows that for historical realism?

22,000ft is rather higher than the Mosquito Mk VI usually went.