Author Topic: My gripes since returning.  (Read 2542 times)

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2014, 10:21:59 AM »
It made some people leave, some people leaving resulted in other people leaving because numbers dropped, low numbers caused others to take their normal breaks, numbers continued to fall so more people left.  the rule then affected others because they wanted to equalize some fights or defenses of bases but could not due to the rule.  

It easily saw CONTINUED action in the MA decrease.  Action decreases, people leave.  It is nice to see the numbers a little higher lately but that happens every winter.

Oh please.  You make it sound as though that was the only reason for the decline of the player base.  I can assure you it's not.  The reasons are many and varied.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2014, 11:07:56 AM »
HTC DID in fact answer this question and "that's the way it was before" was not their response. 

If you choose to go find this thread with the answer in it, know this for certain...it is not a cause worth taking up, lol for surely you will burn in HTC BBS hell. 

HTC alluded to investigating changing this rule when the new version comes out.  My suggestion to those that enjoy their BBS privs is to leave it alone until that time.  After that, I believe it to be an open topic since that is when they said they'd investigate the possibility of changing it and one has to assume that input from the player base will be taken into consideration at that time.  If that is not the case, I'm sure they'll let the first OPer know immediately when they see the thread labeled:

"New Version is out, now what about that _____ Rule?"

OK, I did find it and this is what Hitech had to say....

"This is very close to my opinion, including the 6 hour, I do not know for sure if 6 hours works as well as 12, but I do know from stats, 1 hour  does not work well. Most people assume that the limit was raised do to "spying issues". It was nothing to do with it. It is a simple fact that our stats show less of country imbalances with 12 hour vs 1 hour time limits with 1 hour the countries seem to always be out of balance. And the swings are constantly moving to different countries. With 12 hours the % of the swings are a lot less and the frequency of swings are less frequent.

I also understand the desire to be able to fly in the morning on week ends, and change again flying in the evening. And I have no problem with that concept. But I am also fairly sure that changing to 6 hours would have 0 impact on the amount of complaints and we would still have the same amount of kn-ashing of teeth for 1 hour, even though I know 1 hour creates greater country imbalance vs longer.

So things may or may not change in the future, but things will not change to any thing close to 1 hour. The value chosen is base on the damping effect of oscillation do to players changing side along and with desire to keep the time long enough that an immediate change and change back can not be used for a strategic advantage.

HiTech"

So wild swings in side balances is the issue. Understandable, nobody likes being on the "losing" side and if you have no "country loyalty" I can certainly see this as being an issue. I do hope that when they load the new version that they try a different time. 6 hours may have no impact, but maybe 4 would help while still being large enough to cut back on the side balancing issues. 4 hours would give the hard core players a couple changes a night.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2014, 11:09:50 AM »
In AH1 and AH2 up to a few years ago ENY was to stop 300 players from joining a single side and shut down the arena. We no longer have to fear from that. But, 20 guys in 262 harassing 5 guys is no fun either. I'm not sure HiTech really expected players to change sides when ENY kicked in. But, he did expect ENY to keep highly imbalanced odds from causing players to log or cancel their accounts like they did in AH1. Because the rooks got 300 players every Sunday night to close the arena down for about a month. You cannot fight 150 guys in late war rides when your side only has 30 guys. That is what ended up happening due to the rooks JSO before ENY to the knights and bishops.

You have selective memory. Back in 2000-2004 -ish in my timezone Bish had this kind of overpower as a rule. 150-60-30 was the norm and no fights between bish and knight, naturally. Every day that I logged on to try to up from one of the few 24/7 vulched fields slowly eroded the fun out of it. When JSO started I was actually laughing because it was poetic justice. In effect JSO was the thing I had always hoped to happen to bish all those years they ganged us. It was only sundays, even then, but it seems its enough to cause a serious case of waaambulance.
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Offline TW9

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2014, 11:13:51 AM »
I don't remember ENY being in AH1. But I do remember the Bish hordes. They had a few good squads back then like Bops and 9Giap that would run chain missions. Nits had a few too. Rooks typically lost but they had that huge squad night once a week where they'd basically wipe a map.
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Offline Gman

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2014, 11:54:19 AM »
Quote
The reasons are many and varied.

This is stated and restated often.  IF this is true, why are other game companies who have been around a long time, maybe not as long as HTC, but close on 10 years now, thriving and increasing their player base, while HTC has been down arrow for the last 4 years in that department?  You can't blame it on the "multitudes" of reasons and lay no blame at the feet of HTC - as everyone fondly says, it's THEIR company.  Their choice to make NO changes in the last 4 years in terms of gameplay mechanics.  THEIR numbers that continually have declined.  These "many varied reasons" must not apply to other companies who have increased their numbers consistently, to the point of having hundreds of thousands, because many of them seem immune to these "many varied" reasons for player numbers declining.   Why is that?  No change + no significant improvement = stagnation, and that is the largest reason players have drifted away IMO.


Again, other online games of similar monthly cost are able to keep people constantly interested by constant innovation and positive attitude towards their customers, even, no especially towards the squeeky wheels.  This IMO is the other reason that greatly contributes to the decline in members in the last 1/4 of the lifespan of the HTC company.


One thing I will say is that all this stuff around 12 hour rules, player numbers, and such, probably have simple explanations.  HT has been quoted from these pages as saying long term players aren't nearly as important to the business model as newly acquired players, especially for their 1st year of playing.  This is understandable, as new players are more dedicated, excited, and more likely to bring in other friends to the revenue stream, where as long term players are more likely to cause problems.  This also makes long term players less valuable - in all respects.  Based on this I don't think HT or Skuzzy lose a wink of sleep over PNGing a long term player, or having him leave the game.  Unfortunately the ripple effects of this happening are hard to predict IMO, as many friends and squadmates tend to form and hold a grudge after events like this.

Here is a very interesting, and telling post HT made a while back:

Quote
Profit is the only goal and the equation Profit = Total Recipe - Total Cost is really the only equation. There is in reality NOTHING else to consider.

But understanding the equation above is more complex than can be described in a book. Cost is not just a $ amount, you must also consider the time frame of of the profit. I.E. What is your profit over many years vs just this year. This adds the complexity when you start asking, can I sustain a profit when just looking at the short term vs long term effects of lower $ cost. It may be that you are saving a $ but the productivity and training cost increase down the road more then the original savings.

There are also times when nothing is more important then short term profit because  in business cash is king. If you run out of cash the company will most likely fold very quickly. Hence thinking long term can also explode the company.

Personal satisfaction also ends up in the same basic equation, because with out it , the drive to make the profit larger is liking to leave very soon.

HiTech


That last sentence tells it all IMO.  Personal satisfaction.  It's my guess, and only a guess, that this feature of the company probably changed for HTC over time.  Less satisfaction = less changes and improvements.  Combined with real life, adding wife, children, and the usual stuff that happens over time, satisfaction starts arriving from other sources.  Then the place where some of that came from (AH) originally starts to suffer for it.  It's normal and common.  Still, it doesn't make the customers all that happy.

That said, I think HTC is back on the "good old days" track, and we'll see it sooner than later.  I hope.  Perhaps the low numbers created enough urgency for the new update to come along, perhaps HTC sought some of that personal satisfaction with AH back, perhaps a number of things.  Whatever the case may be, I think that the new update will bring in more numbers, and that alone will improve things a great deal, in the short term especially.

edit- This post is from years ago from HT, I keep most of the interesting ones over the years.  It's funny because it's true (imo).  Just to give a bit of the other side of the argument.

Quote
Believe me when I say been there done that got the tee shirt on pre anouncing contriverial changes. JB88, remember I have been CEO of an online flight sim company since 1995 (- 2 years of wild bill hell).

Have built 2 of them starting from scratch. And while I'm always looking for better ways of doing things.

I have learned a hell of a lot what does and does not work. And also I am constantly reavaluating that knowledge.

One of the things I have learned is that , a pure marketing type person interacting with the community is an absolute night mare . W
They typically do far more damage than you could ever imagine. There problem is that a marketing / sales type personality is very much driven by telling people what they want to hear. While this works for a short time, in the end it really breaks down the trust of gamer vs game maker.  And from then on anything the marketing person saises is just viewed as pure hype, and ignored. Go look at WB as a classic example of how to destroy player relations.

When you have a product that all of your customers communicate with each other on a daily basses, it creates an entirely different beast than other type industries.

HiTech
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 12:12:11 PM by Gman »

Offline Changeup

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2014, 12:14:24 PM »
Oh please.  You make it sound as though that was the only reason for the decline of the player base.  I can assure you it's not.  The reasons are many and varied.

Lmao, no I didnt.  I simply made the correlation that some people quitting helped the decline and that rule, at a very minimum enabled some of it.  You made that assumption out of what I said.  Any reasonable human being that plays this game knows it's not the only reason.  Geezus.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2014, 12:18:37 PM »
I don't remember ENY being in AH1.


ENY limiter was introduced shortly after switching to AII in summer of 2004
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Offline SysError

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2014, 12:45:31 PM »
OK, I did find it and this is what Hitech had to say....

One of the problems with the current Wish List forum is that it is not organized.  As a result you are never sure if what you are suggesting or reading has been written about before, and if it has, perhaps what, if anything, HTC has said about it.

The search bar and sages are all we have.

And the squeakiest wheels have the stage.  (Which is perhaps all they want).

   
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2014, 12:58:46 PM »
This is stated and restated often.  IF this is true, why are other game companies who have been around a long time, maybe not as long as HTC, but close on 10 years now, thriving and increasing their player base, while HTC has been down arrow for the last 4 years in that department?  You can't blame it on the "multitudes" of reasons and lay no blame at the feet of HTC

I didn't say the many and varied reasons were all external to the decisions HTC has made over time.
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Offline Triton28

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2014, 01:12:43 PM »
I'd just like to add that' I've never fussed about anything because I'm a very nice person and easy to get along with.  I love all of you.  <3
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Offline Canspec

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2014, 03:27:11 PM »
I'd just like to add that' I've never fussed about anything because I'm a very nice person and easy to get along with.  I love all of you.  <3

Triton28 is awesome....definitely alot more awesome than the other 27 Tritons........ :old:
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Offline Triton28

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2014, 04:46:41 PM »
Triton28 is awesome....definitely alot more awesome than the other 27 Tritons........ :old:

 :o

No.   Triton1 pwns me by a substantial margin.
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Offline Volron

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2014, 06:23:46 PM »
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2014, 07:45:58 PM »
I'd just like to add that' I've never fussed about anything because I'm a very nice person and easy to get along with.  I love all of you.  <3

dude grow up, arent you like up to 40 by now? only women pretend to be 28 forever :).



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Offline Arlo

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Re: My gripes since returning.
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2014, 09:51:14 PM »
arent you like up to 40 by now?

Um. No.

Gorram thread squeekers, the lot o yas.  :lol