Author Topic: Why, oh why?  (Read 2385 times)

Offline Changeup

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2014, 02:20:07 PM »
Hitech explained his reasoning here.


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361462.msg4811379.html#msg4811379

Edited

one of the primary rules of profitability is:

"Never, ever let your money get mad"

Very important rule...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 02:23:17 PM by Changeup »
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Someguy63

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2014, 02:46:44 PM »
Edited

one of the primary rules of profitability is:

"Never, ever let your money get mad"

Very important rule...

True that.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2014, 05:25:24 PM »
Edited

one of the primary rules of profitability is:

"Never, ever let your money get mad"

Very important rule...

Well either you piss off 12 guys and they quit with the 12 hour limit, ORRRRRR you put the limit to 1 hour and 50 people quit because their team is always getting crushed, which is better for his wallet?

Offline Gman

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2014, 05:50:38 PM »
Quote
ORRRRRR you put the limit to 1 hour and 50 people quit because their team is always getting crushed, which is better for his wallet?

I think that most of the people who wanted to change back to 1 hr don't really buy this.  Even the logic implied in "their team", suggest that if players in great numbers are upset "their" team is getting squashed, those players mustn't be switching sides often or at all in the first place, if they are on the low side being bashed constantly, right?  Wasn't the ENY system supposed to "fix" the whole numbers thing?  If it was, and yet the same reason was used to implement the 12 hour rule, then ENY didn't work and failed, right?  Yet it's still here isn't it.

BTW, even with the very few hours I put in the MA now, I still see the whine "the rooks/knights/bish are being teamed up on" on a pretty regular occasion, and can prove that with screen shots of text with corresponding clipboard numbers that show that to be in fact true in terms of a numbers imbalance.  This being the case, neither ENY NOR the 12 hour rule is a perfect, or even satisfactory solution to said problem, at least in the opinion of some, if not many. 

A simple solution that would have satisfied everyone would have been to say "We're going to revert to the 1 hour due to popular demand by enough members for 1 week/whatever, and then post the data showing the numbers regarding team balance".  Instead all that was done was HT gave vague reasons, not even any numbers in the air, no numbers at all in fact.  What would be the harm in satisfying BOTH sides of the argument, by saying that there will be a trial run both ways over the course of a couple weeks or a month, and the data posted showing the result?  



Remember the thread that said "+1 if you want the 12 hour rule changed to 1 hour"?  It was only up a day, and had 4 pages and nearly 50 responses.  Had it been left alone for a week, I bet it would have climbed into the triple digits.  So, it isn't just 12 members, the "Muppet show and friends" (get it, I've waited years to use that one) that were complaining and wanted change, or at least an acceptable (to them) explanation.  That could have easily, simply, and fairly been taken care of by a short test of the 1 hour being implemented, and HT saying "see, I told you so", or "perhaps the player base tendancies have changed, and 1 hour or 4, 6, whatever can be implemented for the time being".  That would have = NO, or very FEW players upset, and been a huge PR win overall.  Instead, defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.  Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 06:14:18 PM by Gman »

Offline Changeup

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2014, 05:51:38 PM »
Well either you piss off 12 guys and they quit with the 12 hour limit, ORRRRRR you put the limit to 1 hour and 50 people quit because their team is always getting crushed, which is better for his wallet?

Fugi,

You present that like its the only two possible options.  It's not.  Don't act like it is.  However, you did prove how easy it is to let your money get mad.  Thanks.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline xPoisonx

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2014, 06:34:21 PM »
It doesn't have to be one hour. It can be 4 hours with 1 hour for lowest numbers country.. etc etc its not just A and B.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2014, 07:22:03 PM »
^^ Agree, there are lots of solutions that could work.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2014, 08:06:03 PM »
I think that most of the people who wanted to change back to 1 hr don't really buy this.  Even the logic implied in "their team", suggest that if players in great numbers are upset "their" team is getting squashed, those players mustn't be switching sides often or at all in the first place, if they are on the low side being bashed constantly, right?  Wasn't the ENY system supposed to "fix" the whole numbers thing?  If it was, and yet the same reason was used to implement the 12 hour rule, then ENY didn't work and failed, right?  Yet it's still here isn't it.

BTW, even with the very few hours I put in the MA now, I still see the whine "the rooks/knights/bish are being teamed up on" on a pretty regular occasion, and can prove that with screen shots of text with corresponding clipboard numbers that show that to be in fact true in terms of a numbers imbalance.  This being the case, neither ENY NOR the 12 hour rule is a perfect, or even satisfactory solution to said problem, at least in the opinion of some, if not many. 

A simple solution that would have satisfied everyone would have been to say "We're going to revert to the 1 hour due to popular demand by enough members for 1 week/whatever, and then post the data showing the numbers regarding team balance".  Instead all that was done was HT gave vague reasons, not even any numbers in the air, no numbers at all in fact.  What would be the harm in satisfying BOTH sides of the argument, by saying that there will be a trial run both ways over the course of a couple weeks or a month, and the data posted showing the result?  



Remember the thread that said "+1 if you want the 12 hour rule changed to 1 hour"?  It was only up a day, and had 4 pages and nearly 50 responses.  Had it been left alone for a week, I bet it would have climbed into the triple digits.  So, it isn't just 12 members, the "Muppet show and friends" (get it, I've waited years to use that one) that were complaining and wanted change, or at least an acceptable (to them) explanation.  That could have easily, simply, and fairly been taken care of by a short test of the 1 hour being implemented, and HT saying "see, I told you so", or "perhaps the player base tendancies have changed, and 1 hour or 4, 6, whatever can be implemented for the time being".  That would have = NO, or very FEW players upset, and been a huge PR win overall.  Instead, defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.  Just my opinion.

I'm just going by what Hitech posted. He has the numbers and while I know he will never post those, and I respect him for that, I have to believe that he's leveling with us. When hasn't he right? He's always been honest with what he's posted, brutally so sometimes. If his numbers show wild fluctuations in balance numbers when it was only an hour and switching back to the 12 hour quieted those swings then it did what he intended.

A lot of people complain about the 12 hour rule here, but you have to remember that 1. BBS posters are a VERY small number of the players who play, and 2. we don't have access to the numbers HTC has and so don't know how many people left because their team was the one always getting hammered. Those are the numbers HTC has to worry about.

Fugi,

You present that like its the only two possible options.  It's not.  Don't act like it is.  However, you did prove how easy it is to let your money get mad.  Thanks.

I only posted two options because it proved the point. HTC has the numbers and so know better than any of us which setting we have used ( one hour switch time or the 12 hour switch time) has chased away the most people. My guess is it was the 1 hour switch time, because if it was the 12 hour switch time we would have already switched back or to some other option.

It doesn't have to be one hour. It can be 4 hours with 1 hour for lowest numbers country.. etc etc its not just A and B.

^^ Agree, there are lots of solutions that could work.


If you checked the link I posted Hitech said he may try some other times but doesn't think it will be as effective as the 12 hour rule. We can hope it works out better than he thought IF he tries it at some later date.

Offline xPoisonx

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2014, 08:22:30 PM »
Some other time is the problem here. Its obviously a huge issue or the community wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it... but nothing has happened, and its as simple as changing a value in the arena settings.
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Offline 68Raptor

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2014, 09:10:00 PM »
It's not a big issue.. it's only a very small number of players that are VERY vocal on the forums. It is/was a issue for them. However it's not an issue for most from my point of view.. of the 50 or so players I'm in regular contact with a total of zero care about the 12 hour rule.


I'm sure there is a picture around here showing a bunch of people making a mountain out of a mole hill.. That would apply here.
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Offline xPoisonx

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2014, 10:38:53 PM »
It's not a big issue.. it's only a very small number of players that are VERY vocal on the forums. It is/was a issue for them. However it's not an issue for most from my point of view.. of the 50 or so players I'm in regular contact with a total of zero care about the 12 hour rule.


I'm sure there is a picture around here showing a bunch of people making a mountain out of a mole hill.. That would apply here.
Its bigger then you realize... even if it wasn't, it is still a problem. It defeats the purpose of eny.
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you have a ego the size of Texas.
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Offline Oddball-CAF

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2014, 11:56:29 PM »
  ... When the new engine is released, beyond improved graphics will be an entirely new operational and strategic
system.
  I have not until now mentioned this as I am what is known as a "remote viewer". However, my section in
Area 51 was recently disbanded due to budget cuts, so I am now using my "gift" for topics of interest
in the civilian world.
  Well, you didn't really expect the new engine to be released without a lot of accompanying bells and
whistles, did you?
  Some of the more fascinating features of the new engine, strats and vehicles, in no particular order.

Dedicated/Destructible factories which produce various types of aircraft. ie: don't like 262s?
Raid the 262 factory and dependent upon the level of damage, either restrict the numbers or
eliminate them completely from the skies until said factory has been resupplied/repaired.
  Train yards. Moving massive amounts of ordnance, damage or destruction of said
yards will impact the ammunition/ordnance carried by fighters and bombers.
ie: that P47 might only be able to pack 1600 rounds of .50 caliber rather than
the 3200 everyone's used to.
  And gone are the cookie cutter towns and fields. Meticulously detailed towns replicating
those that were found in France, Germany, Austria, Japan, Italy, etc... You'll actually
feel like you're there when you see these.
  As to airfields, you'll be seeing some beautifully crafted buildings as well. And no two
airfields will look alike.
   Headquarters strikes will no longer be taking down radar over the entire map for
every single airfield or vbase a country owns. Rather, certain command and control
limitations will be imposed on the attacked HQ country. What these limitations will
be, I can't quite see with my power. It's a bit hazy... Uh oh...I'm losing it...
Dang, it's gone.

Offline rvflyer

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2014, 12:24:48 AM »
completely inaccurate, I flew for over 10 years, only a few times was I loyal to one country, I spent most of my time hopping. The only country whose player base would accuse anyone? Bishop - not all players just the smash and grab newbies who whine about it, the rest of aces? doesn't care and welcome the change.
the low side numbers is one of the reasons I quit plus the 12 hour rule, not going to bother arguing over it - the way I see it; being I only could login once a day to find a fight, if i switched countries and the fight died down, that was the end of it for me. Not going to sit around waiting hours for something to happen.


And I call BS on your statement all sides have accused of spying.  :bhead
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Offline rvflyer

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2014, 12:30:14 AM »
  ... When the new engine is released, beyond improved graphics will be an entirely new operational and strategic
system.
  I have not until now mentioned this as I am what is known as a "remote viewer". However, my section in
Area 51 was recently disbanded due to budget cuts, so I am now using my "gift" for topics of interest
in the civilian world.
  Well, you didn't really expect the new engine to be released without a lot of accompanying bells and
whistles, did you?
  Some of the more fascinating features of the new engine, strats and vehicles, in no particular order.

Dedicated/Destructible factories which produce various types of aircraft. ie: don't like 262s?
Raid the 262 factory and dependent upon the level of damage, either restrict the numbers or
eliminate them completely from the skies until said factory has been resupplied/repaired.
  Train yards. Moving massive amounts of ordnance, damage or destruction of said
yards will impact the ammunition/ordnance carried by fighters and bombers.
ie: that P47 might only be able to pack 1600 rounds of .50 caliber rather than
the 3200 everyone's used to.
  And gone are the cookie cutter towns and fields. Meticulously detailed towns replicating
those that were found in France, Germany, Austria, Japan, Italy, etc... You'll actually
feel like you're there when you see these.
  As to airfields, you'll be seeing some beautifully crafted buildings as well. And no two
airfields will look alike.
   Headquarters strikes will no longer be taking down radar over the entire map for
every single airfield or vbase a country owns. Rather, certain command and control
limitations will be imposed on the attacked HQ country. What these limitations will
be, I can't quite see with my power. It's a bit hazy... Uh oh...I'm losing it...
Dang, it's gone.


And it has also been mentioned that if you talk about area 51 you will mysteriously disappear.
Tour 70 2005 to present

Online DmonSlyr

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Re: Why, oh why?
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2014, 12:33:56 AM »
  ... When the new engine is released, beyond improved graphics will be an entirely new operational and strategic
system.
  I have not until now mentioned this as I am what is known as a "remote viewer". However, my section in
Area 51 was recently disbanded due to budget cuts, so I am now using my "gift" for topics of interest
in the civilian world.
  Well, you didn't really expect the new engine to be released without a lot of accompanying bells and
whistles, did you?
  Some of the more fascinating features of the new engine, strats and vehicles, in no particular order.

Dedicated/Destructible factories which produce various types of aircraft. ie: don't like 262s?
Raid the 262 factory and dependent upon the level of damage, either restrict the numbers or
eliminate them completely from the skies until said factory has been resupplied/repaired.
  Train yards. Moving massive amounts of ordnance, damage or destruction of said
yards will impact the ammunition/ordnance carried by fighters and bombers.
ie: that P47 might only be able to pack 1600 rounds of .50 caliber rather than
the 3200 everyone's used to.
  And gone are the cookie cutter towns and fields. Meticulously detailed towns replicating
those that were found in France, Germany, Austria, Japan, Italy, etc... You'll actually
feel like you're there when you see these.
  As to airfields, you'll be seeing some beautifully crafted buildings as well. And no two
airfields will look alike.
   Headquarters strikes will no longer be taking down radar over the entire map for
every single airfield or vbase a country owns. Rather, certain command and control
limitations will be imposed on the attacked HQ country. What these limitations will
be, I can't quite see with my power. It's a bit hazy... Uh oh...I'm losing it...
Dang, it's gone.


Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!!  :D

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