Old F@RTS

[bustr]

Changeup and Tilt, you guys don't own your own company's yet??, while being able to see these essential truth's hampering all of those around you? The guy who owns a company that finds value in your obvious intellectual abilities, never makes statements like you both just did to an audience like you just entertained. He has the future of his company to protect due to his prudence and experience.

[DREDIOCK]

Plus 1.  I see it everyday only the reasons are different.  Those with expertise fear the full potential of an idea they ignored or poo poo'd knowing full well it was brialliant.  It simply lacked proper execution.

I've seen this  too. Those with less experience thinking their idea was brilliant and only needed proper execution not knowing that the one/s with experience already had that brilliant idea and tried the "proper execution" and found that it still didn't work.

Not that new guys cant have fresh ideas. They can indeed and its always good to have a fresh set of eyes look at a problem jussst in case. But like that 26 year old rare bird. The fresh new ideas that work better are the exception and not the norm and often were the same fresh new idea the one with experience had years before and also at the time thought it was brilliant.


Buddy of mine whom we help each other from time to time were just talking about this subject the other day.
Less experienced guy gets hired and gets the same great ideas we had when we were them thinking they found a better way. So long as they arent going to destroy something or do something thats going to be a detriment tot he job we will often let them go just to see how long it takes them to come to the same conclusions we did years before and on their own do it our way. Some are just hard headed and eventually we have to step in and put our foot down and explain to them that there is a reason we do things the way we do. They really arent trying anything new. Everything they just tried we already tried years ago.

Occasionally someone comes up with a gem. But there we are with that rare bird again

[guncrasher]

I've seen this  too. Those with less experience thinking their idea was brilliant and only needed proper execution not knowing that the one/s with experience already had that brilliant idea and tried the "proper execution" and found that it still didn't work.

Not that new guys cant have fresh ideas. They can indeed and its always good to have a fresh set of eyes look at a problem jussst in case. But like that 26 year old rare bird. The fresh new ideas that work better are the exception and not the norm and often were the same fresh new idea the one with experience had years before and also at the time thought it was brilliant.


Buddy of mine whom we help each other from time to time were just talking about this subject the other day.
Less experienced guy gets hired and gets the same great ideas we had when we were them thinking they found a better way. So long as they arent going to destroy something or do something thats going to be a detriment tot he job we will often let them go just to see how long it takes them to come to the same conclusions we did years before and on their own do it our way. Some are just hard headed and eventually we have to step in and put our foot down and explain to them that there is a reason we do things the way we do. They really arent trying anything new. Everything they just tried we already tried years ago.

Occasionally someone comes up with a gem. But there we are with that rare bird again

when I used to work at the insurance company we would hire new kids fresh out of college who always thought they had the answer to all our problems.  I would give them a full day to try it and they would always come to the same conclusion the I had 15 years before.  at the company that I work for, things are the same way.  every single kid that gets hired always thinks he's go the answer to all our problems.


semp

[Wizz]

when I used to work at the insurance company we would hire new kids fresh out of college who always thought they had the answer to all our problems.  I would give them a full day to try it and they would always come to the same conclusion the I had 15 years before.  at the company that I work for, things are the same way.  every single kid that gets hired always thinks he's go the answer to all our problems.


semp

Ive always pictured you as the guy who outlasted everyone at his job. Walks around with some mustache and swagger... king of his little domain. I also had a feeling you were in insurance.

Explains a lot

[guncrasher]

Ive always pictured you as the guy who outlasted everyone at his job. Walks around with some mustache and swagger... king of his little domain. I also had a feeling you were in insurance.

Explains a lot

actually I shave above and below the neck.  and I dont work at the insurance company since 1998.  I work at a steel company now, just an average employee out of 1000.  but I still have the same work ethics.  they pay me I work and love to earn my pay.  refuse to sit around.

and no I will never outlast anybody at any job.  at 62 I am a gone mf, dont really care if I get less money than at 67 and 2/3's.   we just had a guy retire at the company, he started working in 1957 here.  strong work ethics and that old fart moved faster than most of us.  now that's an old fart .


semp


semp

[bustr]

Occasionally someone comes up with a gem. But there we are with that rare bird again

Suppose Hitech meant the same thing about the wish list when he wished players were able to know their bad ideas from their good ones.

After all this time, I wonder if you can only know that by being around long enough to get a feel for what is and isn't possible with the current code. Versus Hitech's willingness to perform kitchen remodeling in the tower because one group of players thinks it would be neet. That ends up requiring a completely new foundation has to be poured which unbalances the rest of the game. But, they argued the idea's neetness is it's validity. And worth any problems for Hitech as they voted like the Athenians for Hitech to play Socrates with his company. Athenian democracy was often fatally buggie with neet ideas.

Like touching the wiring in a 1930's house, ending up paying for new walls due to demolition of the lath and plaster along with a contractor to rewire everything to code. Who then lets you in on the secret that you will need a plumber before you can hook up your new garbage disposal now that he and the carpenter have seen your walls open and don't want to loose their licenses. And the problem didn't care if you were 25 or 65. Chances are being 65 you had a better idea of the extent of the fiasco versus the 25 year old who thought he was getting a steal buying that old house. Common problem in Berwyn IL where my wife owns a 1930's vintage brick and stone. Open a wall or touch the 1930's wiring, the city just sold you a complete remodeling or a tax lien per code. Catch-22, once the code forced remodeling starts, you have to upgrade your wiring per code. Neet idea to buy a cheap 1930's house.

Now if you build a new home, many things are possible. Especially for a master builder like Hitech. Hey!! where have all those master Athenian voters run off to??

[mikev]

actually I shave above and below the neck.  and I dont work at the insurance company since 1998.  I work at a steel company now, just an average employee out of 1000.  but I still have the same work ethics.  they pay me I work and love to earn my pay.  refuse to sit around.

and no I will never outlast anybody at any job.  at 62 I am a gone mf, dont really care if I get less money than at 67 and 2/3's.   we just had a guy retire at the company, he started working in 1957 here.  strong work ethics and that old fart moved faster than most of us.  now that's an old fart .
 


semp


semp

did steel fab for 38 years can relate to your thinking. took a couple years cooking college now semi retired working in a kitchen a few hours a night 5 days a week and can have vacation any time i want. no pressure no worries and keeps the bank account going upwards ...

[Tilt]

Changeup and Tilt, you guys don't own your own company's yet??,

CEO for 26 years....... profit sharing and reporting directly to the main group board..... turn over approx. €150,000,000.00 per annum

Its this experience over expertise issue I fight day in day out........... indeed I personally have vast experience in my own business, its market, and (as an engineer) the product we make and the service we give.

I have to regularly stop myself being an experience led nay sayer and allowing expertise to have its say and show how it can be done better and more successfully this time round.

Experience is highly valued, but if you only rely on it without the benefit of new input from expertise then your future is self defining.

Never underestimate the ability of expertise to acquire experience............. never over estimate the ability of experience to gain expertise .....

[DREDIOCK]

CEO for 26 years....... profit sharing and reporting directly to the main group board..... turn over approx. €150,000,000.00 per annum

Its this experience over expertise issue I fight day in day out........... indeed I personally have vast experience in my own business, its market, and (as an engineer) the product we make and the service we give.

I have to regularly stop myself being an experience led nay sayer and allowing expertise to have its say and show how it can be done better and more successfully this time round.

Experience is highly valued, but if you only rely on it without the benefit of new input from expertise then your future is self defining.

Never underestimate the ability of expertise to acquire experience............. never over estimate the ability of experience to gain expertise .....

Its been my experience and observation that you dont get expertise without also having experience

You can have technical expertise by way of education. But without real world experience  you end up with something like this

[Tilt]

Its been my experience and observation that you dont get expertise without also having experience

Certainly expertise is enhanced by way of experience.............. Experience alone however is no substitute for skill, subject knowledge and the application of good judgement.............

The video of course just makes a mockery of the debate..............

Do I employ someone who is 20 years time served but only knows (and considers) one way of doing things  (NO)

Do I employ someone who is 5 years served knows the basics but shows a propensity to learn more and apply good judgement (Probably .....in fact very often)

Do I employ someone who combines both the above  (YES absolutely.... however its a "rare beast"  as very often the latter turns into the former)

[Swoop]

What Tilt said.

my Mother taught me to respect my elders, however, ive also worked out on the way that just because someone is older than me doesnt mean theyre not a small minded cretin.  Sometimes i"ll meet a younger person with a much older head on their shoulders.....great example, i just started a contract for Carnival UK (cruise ship operators) to develop an app for revenue management forecasting, theres a lad been assigned to assist me whos a data specialist with the company and, in just 4 days, im so impressed with him ive taken his manager aside and told him this lad is helpful, insightful, has some great ideas and is tenacious enough that, if an idea is shot down for technical reasons he'll think laterally to come up with a different method to achieve the same result.  In short, he'd make a damn good software developer if he had a grounding in programming techniques......and so ive offered to train him up as the project runs.

[Changeup]

Changeup and Tilt, you guys don't own your own company's yet??, while being able to see these essential truth's hampering all of those around you? The guy who owns a company that finds value in your obvious intellectual abilities, never makes statements like you both just did to an audience like you just entertained. He has the future of his company to protect due to his prudence and experience.

Oh Bustr...it'll be ok.

I manage 56 sales people and two div managers for roughly 50M.  I don't need to own my own company to recognize the difference between good ideas and poor execution.  Nor will that help me understand that people do not ever change their basic tendencies.  Poor execution is a basic tendency as is never following through with great ideas.

Most owners don't have prudence enough to differentiate between their own experiences and "the way it's always been done".  That's why they hire people like Tilt, Gman and I.

[GhostCDB]

 

[Kruel]

The younger generation in this game is like the mid 50 year olds isn't it? Weee!

[guncrasher]

Oh Bustr...it'll be ok.

I manage 56 sales people and two div managers for roughly 50M.  I don't need to own my own company to recognize the difference between good ideas and poor execution.  Nor will that help me understand that people do not ever change their basic tendencies.  Poor execution is a basic tendency as is never following through with great ideas.

Most owners don't have prudence enough to differentiate between their own experiences and "the way it's always been done".  That's why they hire people like Tilt, Gman and I.

big deal,  I managed 7 people and one project brought 30 million in profits just in one year alone.


semp