Author Topic: GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...  (Read 2380 times)

Offline AKIron

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2003, 10:46:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DmdNexus
And my quotes were taken from the conservative right wing "fair and balanced" Fox news...

Are you calling them liars? :lol


You seem to be the only one here denying the subject title.

You're beginning to act a lot like Weazel, you remember him doncha? The guy that acted so ridiculously that no one took him seriously? The guy that got louder and louder because everyone ignored him, finally resulting in him being banned. Keep it up, you're halfway there.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Sabre

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2003, 10:48:09 AM »
DNexus, your "telling" point is taken out of context.  The full line from the Fox article is:

Quote
Federal government spending, which grew at a 1.4 percent rate, was only a minor contributor to GDP in the third quarter. Spending on national defense was flat. But in the second quarter, military spending on the Iraq war — which grew at a whopping 45.8 percent rate — helped to catapult economic growth.


I'm not sure what point your are trying to make here, but the gist of the above quote is that business, not government spending on defense, was the primary driver of 3rd quarter economic growth.
Sabre
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Offline miko2d

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2003, 10:53:29 AM »
muckmaw: Miko-
 Please understand, I do not bother to read whatever it is your saying. This is the reason for my lack of replies. I simply do not have time today to go through your posts. Sorry.


 That's OK. Most people on this board would have heard the meaningless and misleading stuff you did have time to copy and paste, so I may as well try to educate them.
 I certainly do not blame you for coming up with those views.

 AKIron: Looks like consumer and business spending rather than government spending to me.

 Sure. The people and businesses used the money created by fed and made avaibale to them via credit to bid away the resources used productively elsewhere. The prices increase, so if you measure the activity in dollars, you see growth. Does it grow really? How much of it is converting capital into consumption? Who knows.

muckmaw: ...but I'm just interested in the mechanics of it. I don't have time or the inclination to ponder the deeper meaning.

 I though the "mechanics" and "deeper meaning" are the same - understanding the actual processes happening behind the reported aggregate numbers.

...a stronger than expected GDP is a single indicator of an accelerating economy.

 Accelerating what? Monetary expansion not backed by expansion in production that causes prices to increase? Yes, that would cause inflation.
 Usually accelerating economy means acceleration of wealth creation - either increase in amount of production for consumption or in the amount of capital or both. That would cause drop in prices and interest rathes - not raise.
 Increase in prices of the same goods is not wealth creation. Increase in consmption due to the reduction of capital is not wealth creation either.

I wouldn't be talking about Greenspan having to do anything with Iraq...

 Greenspan could have explained to Bush what would happen if more countries - many of which are located close to Europe and trading mostly with Europe - followed Iraq's lead and switched to Euro from Dollar as the reserve currency.

DmdNexus: There's a reason why I didn't study economics... it's like psychology... there's as many theories as their are quacks...

 That's BS. There are only three-four major doctrines and a dozen or so of schools and one of them is certainly correct. If you spent a few years learning all of them and comparing their theories and prediction records - like I did - you would have no problem spotting the right one and maybe a couple that are close.

AKIron: My quote was taken from a Yahoo! Dow Jones report. Are you denying it's validity? Let's be plain spoken Nexus.

 He just admitted to be ignorant of economics.
 One needs to read at least a few hundred pages of right economic books and articles to understand why that stuff is "not valid" - or rather meaningless.
 What we see can either be good or bad - depending on mechanics of what's going on.

 miko

Offline Rude

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2003, 11:01:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Rude: So if the economy tanks, it will not be Bush's fault?

 That would be a meanigfull statement in this argument - if still incorrect - if the DmdNexus stated that "growth in economy is not Bush's merit".

 But I do not see him saying anything about the "economy" growing. I see him stating that GDP went up due to monetary expansion and the government expenditures.
 So you are not replying to anything he said.

 GDP is calculated in such way that many items that would be counted as expense in private business are counted as income. GDP is supposed to comprise the value of final goods. Most government expenses cannot be rationally counted as final goods.

 Government - Congress and Bush - did not reduce the amount of resources consumed by the government - and withdrawn from economy, they increased it. So that leaves fewer resources available for investment and consumption, even though it printed and gave away the money to buy resources in the form of tax cuts and credit expansion. Oh, yes - he actually caused americans to pay more for steel, lumber, agricultural products and other stuff necessary for business.
 So if the economy does tank, it may well be Bush's fault - depending on his actions. It would certainly be Greenspan's fault causing unsustainable misallocation of capital by artificially lowering the interest rate.

 At the same time consumer spending increased, indicating that people - americans - are nots aving and investing resources into the increase of production.

 So if the production is increasing, it would mean there is a serious capital decumulation going on or someone abroad is investing the necessary capital.
 It's not a great trick increasing production in a factory by neglecting the machinery - but a temporary one.

 GDP is certainly growing - just look at the money supply. It is actually growing faster than GDP because a lot of money gets siphoned off by foreigners in exchange for real goods.

 Economy growing? Maybe - but you would have to demonstrate it to us. Muckmaw clearly does not believe so, since he expect the increase in money supply to run into insufficient production and cause the raise in prices.

 miko


I'll check back next spring for your post on why the economy has experienced a strong recovery.

Offline miko2d

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2003, 11:01:52 AM »
Sabre: The full line from the Fox article is: "Federal government spending, which grew at a 1.4 percent rate, was only a minor contributor to GDP in the third quarter."

 The newly-created money that government spent last quarter did not disappear after being paid to the recepients - but generated more "spending" this quarter. It takes time for harmfull effects of new money not backed by resources to propagate trough the economy.

 This is the quote you should have paid attention to:
Quote
Federal government spending rose 1.4% during the quarter after rising 25.5% in the second quarter. National defense spending was unchanged in the third quarter after surging 45.8% in the second quarter.


 miko

Offline Rude

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2003, 11:05:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DmdNexus
The relavence of your bitterness is lost...
Did your dog piss in your wheaties again today?
\

Just one more example of how very little you understand things...I'm not bitter at all...mildly amused, but certainly not bitter.

Just to prove it, TAKE THIS!!! :) :) :) :)

BTW, my dog does his business outside and not at the table...I also have not eaten a bowl of cereal in at least 25 years.

Your batting average is falling quickly...standing by for the recovery.

Offline miko2d

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2003, 11:05:53 AM »
Rude: I'll check back next spring for your post on why the economy has experienced a strong recovery.

 Who are you kidding?
 If you were interested in learning anything, why not check my posts now for explanation why "strong recovery" of the 90s - or 20s, or 50s - resulted in a bust?

 miko

Offline DmdNexus

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2003, 11:07:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre
I'm not sure what point your are trying to make here, but the gist of the above quote is that business, [/B]


The empahsis is on the last sentence of that quote.. and that's what the Fox writer who wrote the story was driving home to his reader with the dash "--" which is then followed by a conclusion and summary statement.

"But in the second quarter, military spending on the Iraq war which grew at a whopping 45.8 percent rate — helped to catapult economic growth."

That dash was not on the first sentence but the last ... which means the writer is saying the cause of the "economic growth" was helped by the "military spending on the Iraq war" in the second quarter.

You conservatives don't even believe your own propaganda!! :rofl

Offline GRUNHERZ

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2003, 11:17:42 AM »
Who would have thought a massive tax cut would help the economy heat up and recover.

Watch how that weazel John Kerry and that chameleon Wes Clark will try to claim they supported the cuts in someway... :eek:

Offline DmdNexus

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2003, 11:22:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
\

Just to prove it, TAKE THIS!!! :) :)

Your batting average is falling quickly...standing by for the recovery.


I trolled you and keep catching you in my dragnet! Hahahaha
And your buddy Toad is on my hook as well - Mr. Serious!!

I just get on here to yank you guys chain, because I can getr your panties into wad!

I'm doing it quite well at being absurd - haven't you noticed! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

No one takes BBS posts seriously... you fool! :lol

I troll for sport! Not mean spirited like most of you all... that's because I'm just having fun poking fun at you "ahem" serious thinkers.

Now I'm throwing you back into the pond.... :aok  :lol

have a nice day!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2003, 11:25:43 AM by DmdNexus »

Offline Rude

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2003, 11:25:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Rude: I'll check back next spring for your post on why the economy has experienced a strong recovery.

 Who are you kidding?
 If you were interested in learning anything, why not check my posts now for explanation why "strong recovery" of the 90s - or 20s, or 50s - resulted in a bust?

 miko


Not kidding anyone, especially myself. I know this may be hard for you to swallow, but you're not the single bearer of economic knowledge and wisdom.

While you enjoy the details of the story and relish the principles of economics, I prefer the bigger picture. I'm simple minded in all I do by choice...I learned along time ago not to expend effort without a return.

Still, I'm sure there are many here who prefer your approach.

I'm just curious tho....of the proffessional economist out there, what is your opinion of those that differ with your opinion?

Offline Rude

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2003, 11:28:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DmdNexus
I trolled you and keep catching you in my dragnet! Hahahaha
And your buddy Toad is on my hook as well - Mr. Serious!!

I just get on here to yank you guys chain, because I can getr your panties into wad!

I'm doing it quite well at being absurd - haven't you noticed! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

No one takes BBS posts seriously... you fool! :lol

I troll for sport! Not mean spirited like most of you all... that's because I'm just having fun poking fun at you "ahem" serious thinkers.

Now I'm throwing you back into the pond.... :aok  :lol

have a nice day!


Well...it's good to know you are not who we all thought you were....whew!

BTW...trolling is mean spirited....would stop please?

Offline Toad

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2003, 11:30:31 AM »
Nothing better than a guy sitting with a line in an empty gallon pail imagining himself as the world's greatest fisherman.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline DmdNexus

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2003, 11:31:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Well...it's good to know you are not who we all thought you were....whew!

BTW...trolling is mean spirited....would stop please?


I'm not being mean.. I'm poking fun at some of the absurd extreme positions conservatives take.... by saying extreme statements as well.

Offline DmdNexus

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GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2003, 11:32:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Nothing better than a guy sitting with a line in an empty gallon pail imagining himself as the world's greatest fisherman.


Toad! Nibbles!