Author Topic: Need a legal/military advice. Serious. (Read 2508 times)

Dago · « **Reply #30 on:** October 31, 2003, 06:07:57 PM »

Just what we need in the military, thieving scum. He made seriously bad choices, he pays the price.

Dont give me any of the "poor boy, it's not really his fault" crap. Nobody today ever takes responsibility for their actions, it's always someone elses fault. He knew damn well his actions were illegal, I sure wouldn't want to count on someone like that.

dago

midnight Target · « **Reply #31 on:** October 31, 2003, 06:26:00 PM »

Co-worker's son is in jail now doing 90 days on a first offense. He has already contacted the Coast Guard with favorable results. OTOH he was/is a trained EMT.

I can get more details if desired.

miko2d · « **Reply #32 on:** October 31, 2003, 07:03:58 PM »

Dago: Just what we need in the military, thieving scum.

What? He already knows how to pillage. They only need to teach him to murder and rape and sign patriotic letters concocted by his commanding officers.

He made seriously bad choices, he pays the price.

And serving his country and becoming a better man is not a good price and not taking responcibility? I guess you are looking forward to paying for his stay in prison, his future stays in prison and costs of his future crimes?

Be my guest.

miko

Gunthr · « **Reply #33 on:** October 31, 2003, 07:12:34 PM »

LOL I have to agree with you Miko2d. It isn't a bad thing to give a young kid a chance... it isn't like a 19 year old kid without a Dad there doesn't deserve some compassion.

It isn't like serving in today's US military is some kind of a social program, especially if he served in Iraq or some place like that. It would be a perfect place for a kid who might think he's a hot shot, but really isn't unredeemable. Do any of you remember when YOU were 19?

Dago · « **Reply #34 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:04:01 PM »

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And serving his country and becoming a better man is not a good price and not taking responcibility?

Definitly NOT. I think being able to serve in our armed forces is a priviledge, and I honor those who make that choice. I don't think it should be a substitute for prison. It definitly is NOT "paying a good price" for criminal acts.

Imagine a young man making his first long awaited call home from boot camp to his anxious parents: "Hi Mom, Hi Dad, doing fine but I am surrounded by criminal types who are only here to prevent from going to prison. Gosh folks, it seems I am one of the few in my platoon who is here because it is something I want to do and am proud to do, the rest committed serious crimes, they are here to avoid prison, and I am scared to sleep at night in the barracks with these guys".

HELL NO, criminals should go to prison, someone who breaks into a store and is busy stealing guns is not a wonderful but just slightly misguided boy who, darned the luck, just happened to have happened upon "the wrong crowd". He IS the wrong crowd.

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guess you are looking forward to paying for his stay in prison, his future stays in prison and costs of his future crimes?

Sadly, all of us will pay for this young mans choices one way or the other. I would prefer to pay to keep this criminal in jail than have him out committing crimes. I would rather pay my share of his jail cost and know he is being punished, maybe learning a lesson, than pay the increased cost of his crimes through higher retail prices and higher insurance costs due to his theft and the price that is passed on to the consumer.

If he wants to avoid jail, he should seek help, straighten himself out, go to school, work hard and make an attempt to be a good citizen.

Everyone makes mistakes, none of us are free from having broken a law, but everyone who takes a chance should be ready to pay the price.

You haven't described someone who sounds like he wants to turn himself around, only someone trying to duck the punishment he deserves.

If he wants to serve in the military, let him get his life right, THEN enlist free of reservation, free of an axe hanging over his head and then and only then let him represent our nation.

I hope the days when our military was polluted by criminals ducking jailtime is over. Todays Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines are the best we have fielded. They are volunteers, well trained and equipped. Respect them, they earned it.

dago

Raubvogel · « **Reply #35 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:11:57 PM »

I work in a military prison, and I can tell you this much: Guys with criminal backgrounds sooner or later will usually end up committing a crime and ending up in a military prison. The military isn't as quick to let you off easy either. I see guys everyday serving up to 6 months for a simple "crime" as Adultery. Larceny will usually get you 1-2 years, especially if it's gov't property. We have enough trouble training quality troops and retaining them without taking on problem children.

Seraphim · « **Reply #36 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:42:25 PM »

Personally, it depends on the person. Friend of mine was a trouble maker kid (before I knew him), he got busted, dealt with the judge, went to the marines. He tells me it was the best thing for him. Now he's just a loud mouthed joker instead.......But I guess it's better than a joker in prison eh?

miko2d · « **Reply #37 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:44:37 PM »

Dago: You haven't described someone who sounds like he wants to turn himself around, only someone trying to duck the punishment he deserves.

He does not even know about it yet. What I am doing here is trying to provide a little parenting that the boy missed. He is not a formed man, let alone a mature criminal who cannot be redeemed.
He still has a few years when his character is flexible and receptive. If he spends his next few years in jail, that would be it.

I am not talking aboit geeralities here, like you seem to. I am all for trowing the book at vicious little scum who find pleasure in abusing other people, violence, etc.
But that's not the case.

I did a lot of stuff I am now ashamed off when I was his age - including some property damage. Only I was smart and never got caught.
It did not prevent me from turning out OK. Military service certainly helpled me with my character in many respects.

I do not care if he wants to serve in the military. By the time he is capable of wanting right things, it may be too late for him.

As for military being polluted by jail dodgers, maybe you should have thought about it earlier when you voted for politicians who introduced welfare, enacted laws that made impossible for children to work and had Federal Reserve print money so we can have free exports and live in comphort without work.

The way I see it, any guy whoy would be good for military is almost bound to get in trouble with the law, for lack of challenges and parenting.
What, you want only sissies there who's only distinction was being too covardly to misbehave even if they wanted to?
Misbehaving is what children are supposed to do and adults should be there to control them.

miko

Gunthr · « **Reply #38 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:47:18 PM »

Raub, Your job is no picnic, I know from friends who worked in brigs and stockades. And Dago, I have no doubt you are a good guy...

Still ... I think there is room to help a kid. Most nineteen year olds don't have a clue, especially in the circumstances Miko described. If the kid did crimes against a person, I wouldn't even consider it. But it appears he did crimes against property. His Dad was absent. I would give the kid a chance to be a man by proving it, if it were up to me.

As it is, the kid will probably go to prison. Prison.

LePaul · « **Reply #39 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:54:43 PM »

As weapons charge, and already being on probation, just sort of seals his future....as Dune eloquently stated. The military wont be his get out of jail free card. He has difficult times ahead of him

davidpt40 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:21:19 PM »

Wouldn't hurt to ask your lawyer about it. But does this guy really want to be cannon fodder in Iraq?

Sikboy · « **Reply #41 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:25:20 PM »

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Originally posted by davidpt40
Wouldn't hurt to ask your lawyer about it. But does this guy really want to be cannon fodder in Iraq?

Not to mention that his NCOs might yell at him and hurt his feelings.

-Sik

Dago · « **Reply #42 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:42:19 PM »

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As for military being polluted by jail dodgers, maybe you should have thought about it earlier when you voted for politicians who introduced welfare, enacted laws that made impossible for children to work and had Federal Reserve print money so we can have free exports and live in comphort without work.

So, now we are blaming the politicians? Geez, you just dont get it do you? Its about accepting personal responsibility.

Gotta admit, you got me with that statement, it's so ludicrous I can't even begin to author a response worthy of such nonsense.

Child labor laws are to blame? Your right there, we should have our 8 year olds working in sweatshops like all the other third world nations.

The Federal Reserve printing money made a 19 year old try to steal guns?

Free Exports? HUH? What the hell does this have to do with crime and the military?

Are you finding comfort in recreational drugs???

Don't get me wrong, and by the tone of my previous posts it would be easy to do. I really do feel sorry for children who grow up without proper guidance, without a strong parental influence to help them grow, develop and get started down the right path in life. It would be so easy for any young person looking for companionship, acceptance and caring to fall in with the wrong crowd and learn the wrong lessons in life.

But, I think it is still incumbant on each and every one of us to at some point decide when faced with a choice between right and wrong, to conciously make the choice we are willing to live with. The young man you speak of knew he was breaking the law and he did it anyway. We have soldiers 19 years old right now carrying a rifle and worrying about dieing day to day in Afghanistan and Iraq. They have to make more difficult choices, and they are almost without exception, making the right ones.

I hope your friends life turns towards the better, I really do, but unless he chooses to face up to his situation, until he realizes he can make choices and there is a better path available, he will have to live with his decisions.

You want to help your friend? Help him get a job, if he hasn't finished high school, point him towards a program to get his GED. Teach him pride.

Discuss with him where he wants to be in 5 years, and how he plans to get there. Make him THINK, make him ACT. Don't expect the Army to make him a better person, challenge him to do that himself. Then if he wants to go into the service, he will be that much farther ahead and will excel.

dago

Sixpence · « **Reply #43 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:52:11 PM »

It is nice to see your concern Miko, but the military is pretty selective these days. Sounds like this young man is going to learn the hard way, and that's a shame. You can lead a horse to water my friend, but you cannot make him drink.

miko2d · « **Reply #44 on:** October 31, 2003, 10:04:59 PM »

Gunthr : Most nineteen year olds don't have a clue, especially in the circumstances Miko described.

I obviously cannot tell what is going inside his head and nobody can. But I am pretty sure from my own experience that children do stupid things like that not to profit from them or out of malice but to experiece the danger, the risk, to proove their "coolnes" to likewise idiots.

At his age back in Ukraine I walked by my arms over 100 yard heights, got up in the middle of the night to sneak into the military base to steal some cool stuff, manufactured all kinds of explosive devices and home-made weaponry, etc.
I brought things to school that would have gotten the whole school board suspended had it happen in america.

I only got my head straight - last time, at least - at about 35 years old - which seems exactly like the age most people agree a man grows up. It's not an accident that the founding fathers made 35 years old a legal requirement for serious offices.

Anyway, not every stupid act or even a string of them means a person has criminal tendencies.

miko