Author Topic: Administration lies to congress.  (Read 869 times)

Offline miko2d

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Administration lies to congress.
« on: October 31, 2003, 01:21:44 PM »
And what a stupid, obvious lie it is.

 Treasury Secretary Mr Snow presented a semi-annual report in which the administration must identify foreign exchange rate miscreants.
 The Bush administration said neither China nor any other major US trading partner manipulated exchange rates in the first half of 2003 to gain unfair trade advantages.


The report said the Japanese government spent US$59 billion in the first half of this year buying dollars to prevent the yen from appreciating in value and giving Japanese products a pricing edge in foreign markets.

 So the $59 billion worth of yen that - according to that same report - japan government spent the first half of this year to prevent the yen from appreciating in value isn't "currency manipulation"...
 And he does not think that a currency peg, where the pegging
country (China) maintains a weak currency to buy buying hundreds of billions of dollars at fixed rate isn't "currency manipulation"...

 Let's hear your arguments. Like "if it was so obvious, it would be absurd for our government to maintain that position" or "the republican government does not lie" or "your economics is suspect, miko".

 Come on, tell me again how the concept of currency manipulaton has changed since roman times and ihow in the new economy it is barbaric to believe that a currency can be kept up through buying it by the ton.
 Or better yet, tell me how what he says must be true because it is the same guy who says that your Social Security obligations are fully funded.

 miko

Offline ygsmilo

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2003, 01:24:59 PM »
for once I agree with you :p

about the currency issue.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2003, 03:51:07 PM by ygsmilo »

Offline john9001

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2003, 01:32:12 PM »
so the Japanese government bought 59 billion in worthless US paper money,boy are they stupid.

Offline Sabre

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2003, 01:42:46 PM »
Miko, it certainly sounds like an odd interpretation of "currancy manipulation."  The question to ask now is, "How have past administrations reported the type of activity you note here (Japanese buying of dollars, Chinese "pegging", which I'll admit I don't know exactly what you mean here)?  If past administrations have made the same claims, with the same types of activities by foreign governments taking place, then it's a matter of simply applying the terms in a way consistant with past administration usuage.  In other words, if past administrations have decided such activity doesn't constitute "manipulation of exchange rates," then they are being consistant, if not exactly intellectually honest.  I'm getting pretty sick of double standards and selective memory in politics.  Yes, even I have been guilty of that crime, but at least I think I try to recognize and avoid it.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline miko2d

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2003, 02:03:05 PM »
john9001: so the Japanese government bought 59 billion in worthless US paper money,boy are they stupid.

 They are not that stupid. Yes, they are mistaken in their belief that they must pay welfare to their people in order to avoid unempoyment - which is what their american economics teachers told them.
 But at least they pay welfare to their workers by financing a make-work export production for US. They are wasting labor and material resources and slowing down the economy by diverting savings and taxes - but at least the japanese retain work ethics, expertise, habits of thrift and manufacturing infrastructure.

 We get free stuff that raises our standard of living but also allows us to expand welfate state, destroys our productive infrastructure - physical and intellectual capital, and makes us dependent on the arbitrary decisions of the foreigners.
 The day japanese government stops giving trillions of yens to the americans to buy their products and instead buys the same products with the same money from the same people directly - or pays them same salary not to work - will be the day that japan does not even notice that US disappeared while US realises it owed it's livelihod to the foreign largesse.

 You are saying "Japan would never do that, if US falls, who will protect them from North Korea" - and I say EXACTLY!
 That is precisely why US must keep sabotaging any development that may lead to the disarmament of North Korea and why it must never hurt a hair on North Korean's head and must keep supplying them with food like it did Soviet Union - barely enough to survice but not enough to become civilised.

 Of course the North Korea is not as impressive a scare to keep world wying for US protection as Soviet Union was in keeping Europe on the leash - but, conveniently enough, we have this new muslim terrorism arise just in time to preserve our importance. Especially after we stirr it up just a bit more.

 Frankly, untill the last year I was not sure if it will be the muslim terrorists or Chinese communists that were being set as the next bad guy.
 The government apparently decided that it is better to have Chinese subcidise us than than use them for a punchbag - especially since they are hard to provoke but are growing quite fast and could have hit us back.

 The neo-con cabal though that muslim fundamentalism would be easier to cultivate and control. They were eager to have their "next Pearl Harbor" but expected nothing worse. Let's hope they are right as we have no choice but proceed their way.


Sabre Miko, it certainly sounds like an odd interpretation of "currancy manipulation."
...then it's a matter of simply applying the terms in a way consistant with past administration usuage.


 Right. And that in turn depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. :)
 They may be speaking in some kind of coded language that only the inside people intimately familiar with the past context could understand.

 But for an average joe it surely sounds like his job is not going to be lost to China and his business is not going to fold due to competition from imported goods dumped on us and that his retirement dollar will be able to buy the same amount of stuff.

 Of course the same joes with the intimate knowlege of past administrations would decifer the report as saying that their jobs will keep getting lost to China and their businesses will fold due to unfair competition and their pensions will not buy anything.

 So, which joe are you?

 miko

Offline Sabre

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2003, 02:51:28 PM »
I'm neither.  Do you have a link to this report?  I find it difficult to consider your charge that the Administration lied (i.e. told untruth with intent do decieve) to Congress without seeing reading it first.  I will say that since I haven't heard anyone in Congress say the Administration has lied to them, and since the information about Japan and China is supposedly in the report, I can only assume Congress doesn't feel they've been misled.  Either that, or they are all too stupid to actually read the report (granted, a distinct possibility).  Again, if the activity you mention does not constitute exchange manipulation in the halls of power in D.C., if it has not in past reports, they didn't lie to Congress.  Since the report is public, I would expect to see the media commenting on it, with their usual left or right slant.
Sabre
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Offline Rude

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2003, 03:02:54 PM »
What you've told us has been the staus quo for years.

My question to you is when will the American economy fall and when it does, will I get to keep my real estate?

Offline DmdNexus

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Re: Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2003, 03:07:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
And what a stupid, obvious lie it is.


Won't be their first won't be their last...

But you know.... they all lie... I think that's why members of Congress are careful not to start slinging the mud... the splatter tends to splash back and get everyone dirty.

Congress has just begun the investigation into the WMD claims.

Case in point, today was the deadline for handing over the US Intel the Bush used to justify invoking the war powers act.

Did he exagerate the intell or would a reasonable assessment of the intel justify the war?

We'll see.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/31/senate.intel/index.html

Offline miko2d

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2003, 03:36:11 PM »
Sabre: I'm neither.  Do you have a link to this report?

 I do not have a link to the report verbatim. But typing "snow report currency" on google news will produce a whole bunch of newspapers quoting him.
 I even got it in financial newsletters I subscribe to - and if you think my words were harsh, you should have read that analyst...
 It's legit - do not worry.

I find it difficult to consider your charge that the Administration lied (i.e. told untruth with intent do decieve) to Congress without seeing reading it first.  I will say that since I haven't heard anyone in Congress say the Administration has lied to them,

 Glad to help you here. :)

Quote
"This report is a whitewash. ... It will do serious harm to the U.S. economy," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. Schumer is sponsoring legislation that would impose across-the-board tariffs of 27.5 percent on Chinese imports to penalize the country for manipulating its currency.


 How is that? In case you are wondering, "whitewash" is their slang for "blatant lie".

 miko
« Last Edit: October 31, 2003, 05:55:53 PM by miko2d »

Offline MrCoffee

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2003, 03:37:21 PM »
On exchange  rate manipulation... some east asian nations economic systems dont have much of a choice.  Is it really to what extent they manipulate the exchange in regards to fairness?

http://www.mapi.net/html/testimony2.html

Offline miko2d

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2003, 05:50:43 PM »
MrCoffee: On exchange  rate manipulation... some east asian nations economic systems dont have much of a choice.  Is it really to what extent they manipulate the exchange in regards to fairness?

 Of course they do. You realise that they are taxing their own population in order to keep some of their workers producing goods for US consumption - and get nothing in return.

 They are accumulating US currencies and US debt that will never be repaid because of devaluation or default.

 They are loaning money and diverting resources from their economies  instead of borrowing and attracting resources to their economies - after all they are the under-developed and growing countries in need of investment while we (US+Europe) are developed countries in need to find an investment to park our savings.

 Economics is not about employment but about producing wealth. The real wealth is flowing from them to us to the tune of $500 billion a year. And you say they have no choice but to keep it flowing? Otherwise their people would have to do productive work? And save $500 billion in taxes?

 miko

Offline miko2d

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2003, 06:57:45 PM »
MrCoffee: http://www.mapi.net/html/testimony2.html

"Chinese Currency Manipulation": Testimony of Ernest H. Preeg, Ph.D., before the U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, May 1, 2002

Quote
Finally,... China at some future point could use its official dollar holdings as foreign policy leverage against the United States by threatening to sell large quantities of dollars on the market, or merely shift its reserves away from dollars and into euros and yen. ... At some future point... such a threat could become credible.  For example, the threat of substantial Chinese sales of dollars, with its implications for a disruptive decline in the dollar and the U.S. stock market, especially during a downward phase in the U.S. economy and/or an election year, could influence the course of U.S. policy toward Taiwan.  Chinese military officers, in fact, in their studies of nonconventional defense strategies, include reference to George Soros and his attack on the British pound in 1992 as a template for disrupting a rival's (i.e., the United States) economic system.


 What he says is that we sold away our souvereignity for cheap consumer's goods. That we have been sold by our Federal Reserve  and bought by foreigners - our currency, our production, our jobs, our expertise.
 But what does he know, right?

 miko

Offline crabofix

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Administration lies to congress.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2003, 09:04:12 AM »
It is always very interesting to read your stuff miko.

:)