Author Topic: American Rifleman - Symantec - Irony (Read 4779 times)

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #45 on:** November 04, 2003, 04:15:36 PM »

Right and you pointing that out is meaningless.

You want thought police? You want restricted freedoms based on what we MIGHT do?

vorticon · « **Reply #46 on:** November 04, 2003, 04:25:20 PM »

since you cant have a thought police isnt it better to be safe than sorry...libraries would rather not be a tool to aid criminal behaviour(sp)...

please explain to me how freedoms are being restricted??? are freedoms being restricted by a library not having a copy of mein kamph or the communist manifesto???

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 04, 2003, 04:32:37 PM »

Are you saying that mein kamph or the communist manifesto are bad?

I own Mein Kamph, hell it is in the car right now, and the manifesto. They are books, simply books and I think they belong in Every library.

Libraries are about info, not PC bull****. How is some poor kid going to do a report on hitler is he can't get Mein Kamph from the library.

No not better safe then sorry. Better free.

I am sure there thousands of people like me who have a thirst for knowledge, and will never use said knowledge in a bad way for every tool who will use it for bad.

You want to punish thousands of people for the wrongs of a few. I hate that. It is so ****ing wrong, that same argument is used in gun controll all the time and it is no more valid there, less even considering how few legal gun owners ever use there guns in a crime.

Freedom is about being free to read, write, see, do and own what the ever the hell I want, be it a gas gussling Yukon, to a evil looking Ar-15, to a book on bomb making.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 04, 2003, 04:33:14 PM »

Vort
You sound like you WANT thought police?

vorticon · « **Reply #49 on:** November 04, 2003, 04:39:23 PM »

im not saying there bad...im saying that the information contained in them may be harmfull to children who are likely to read them and beleive that jews are evil and should be dead...once your a adult do what you want...

as for better free than safe...just how free can you be if your dead...or afraid that some psycho CAN get ahold of information on how to build things like guns and bombs

how are you being punished by not being able to look it up in a library???

you have a right to read that information...the libraries have a right to keep the SECURITY OF THE STATE by not letting any psycho come in off the street and leave knowing enough to blow something up

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #50 on:** November 04, 2003, 04:52:56 PM »

I am not being punished; I have the money to purchase the books I want. Others have to depend on libraries.

The odds of me being blown up by a guy who read how to make a bomb in a library are so low I will never worry about it. Contrary to the spin many of the antigun jokers on this board try and use, I do not live my life in fear, I own guns cause I like them not out of fear of being killed. I feel safe 99.9% of the time.

Libraries do no have the right to secure the state through censorship. That is violating the right to free speech.

Have you read Mein Kamph? Find me a kid under 15 who could read past the first few pages and I would be amazed!

Answer my question about the thought police.

Libraries are not a line of defense. They are store houses for knowledge. Do you think internet sites with hate speech and bomb making instructions should be banned?

type_char · « **Reply #51 on:** November 04, 2003, 05:07:18 PM »

Actually the ingretients for "black powder" is in your average dictionary. Some kid can blow himself up or someone else for that matter. Its probably happened before.

vorticon · « **Reply #52 on:** November 04, 2003, 05:17:53 PM »

1. good...i think if someone wants to learn about something like that they SHOULD buy it themselves...because for some odd reason most libraries dont keep that kind of book

2. im glad to hear that...

3. they dont...but they do have the right to do what they want on there property...they just prefer to keep kids safe from accidental veiwing of harmfullby using blocking software...

4. you highly underestimate children...i know at least 1 who probably could (hell he read and understood the foundation trilogy when he was 9!!!)
5.no i dont...but i do think that keeping the safety of the many is more important than the want of knowledge by people who are going to use that knowledge to harm the many (if you want the info for legit matters all the more power to you...see 1)

6. true...most people look up that information at home if they want to do something stupid...but they still have the right to keep children from breaking the law (if they do the library is responsible...blocking software is about protecting kids...even the most hardcore legit pornsite agrees)...i think ive made myself clear on bomb making sites...as for hate speach well they should only be accessible by adults...and only for reasearch purposes...we are trying to stop racism you know

capt. apathy · « **Reply #53 on:** November 04, 2003, 05:24:56 PM »

Quote

please explain to me how freedoms are being restricted??? are freedoms being restricted by a library not having a copy of mein kamph or the communist manifesto???

they are being restricted by control of what info is being allowed gov't suport.

and if mein kamph or the communist manifesto aren't allowed in your library freedoms are being restricted. not all libraries can afford all books (obviously), but to leave out certain titles as a way to control their info is restricting the free flow of info.

and I know it's been way over quoted recently but I gotta say it again. "any man who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither"

chairboy, if the software is only available for private home use and clearly states that it is censoring out sites for reasons other than obsenity (and what subjects it's sensoring) then I was wrong and it's a fine product. parents deffinatly have a right to control information into their own kids. but if it is able to be licensed for use by schools, libraries and the like (gov't money)then it needs to be 'cleaner' and only filter obscene material and not restricting thoughts and ideas. (and by obscene I mean media that is already restricted in it's non-electronic form and a child would not be able to purchase it in 'hard' format)

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #54 on:** November 04, 2003, 05:29:14 PM »

Trying to stop racism through restricting freedom of speech is stupid.

You are willing to restrict what people can read because you fear what a few can do with the information. Think about that for a second. Think of how that can be perverted, think how that same idea can be aplied in other places.

I would rather be free. Even more so when people are trying to protect me from something that is not a real threat anyway.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 04, 2003, 05:32:21 PM »

Oh and any library that does not have mein kamph or the communist manifesto is a sad disgrace of a library. I mean that.

Both are VERY significant books.

I would rather see ten copies of Mein Kamph then 20 of Harry potter or Daniel steel books.

vorticon · « **Reply #56 on:** November 04, 2003, 06:18:45 PM »

Quote

You are willing to restrict what people can read because you fear what a few can do with the information. Think about that for a second. Think of how that can be perverted, think how that same idea can be aplied in other places.

your right...but i still stand by what i said...read what you want when your a adult until then you will be kept from material deemed harmfull to you

Quote

and I know it's been way over quoted recently but I gotta say it again. "any man who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither"

i agree...if it was a full trade
i wouldent go for a full trade...but if i was completly free i would trade some freedoms for safety (to about the point we're at right now in canada...)

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Oh and any library that does not have mein kamph or the communist manifesto is a sad disgrace of a library. I mean that.

i agree
but would you want a child (under 18 years old) to read either and take it VERY seriously (as kids do) and do something stupid...

for the most part we agree with each other...

capt. apathy · « **Reply #57 on:** November 04, 2003, 06:37:35 PM »

so who's to decide what are 'safe ideas' for kids to have access to?
I find it interesting that the 2 books you mentioned as bad and dangerouse happened to be fairly important to societies that believed much as you do.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #58 on:** November 04, 2003, 06:46:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Trying to stop racism through restricting freedom of speech is stupid.

Please, not "stupid" I believe the proper term is "intellectually challenged."

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #59 on:** November 04, 2003, 06:51:37 PM »

I would let my kids, (I will have step kids when I get around to marrying my girl) read either if they could get through them. I would make sure and discuss the material with them in depth though. Make them understand one of the writers was insane, and the other a VERY naive person with no clue about human nature.

As for other parents? Well I would hope they would do the same, but some will not. I am sure some parents would not even know what either book was! Though I bet most kids under 18 have no idea either.

I really do not think the government should protect kids more then they do adults. That is the parents job.

There is one freedom I would be happy to restrict. The right to have children. Kids are the biggest responsibility any human short of national leaders a person is going to have yet anyone can have as many as they want. No mater who it hurts, no mater if the kid is bound and destined to be a loser or criminal because he parent/parents are fools.