Did you know that the Spitfire was Inspired by....

[-lazs-]

gore did not actually invent the internet... He invented the internet tax.   A glance at your phone bill will prove his contribution.
lazs

[Ripsnort]

Hey Verm! Al Gore hi-jacked your thread, he invented it!

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
Spit's wing is based on the "Supermarine(surprise.. same company!!) S.6B(S1695) winner of the final 1931 Scheider Trophy race at an average speed of 340.48MPH. This and subsequent new speed record of 408.8MPH were achieved thanks to a very careful streamlining combined with high wing loading and the light water cooled Rolls-Royce R engine developing 2300HP at only 1630lb weight" P272-273 of The Great Book of World War II Airplanes

Find anything else as asanine as that while you were over there Verm? ;-)
-SW

I noticed you started the quote after your remark about the wing. Does the book say anything about using the wing of the S.6B? I thought it was odd that one of the features of the S.6B you pointed out was the high wing loading...which does really correspond to the Spitfire. Anyone....anyone.....Bueller?


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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:

I noticed you started the quote after your remark about the wing. Does the book say anything about using the wing of the S.6B? I thought it was odd that one of the features of the S.6B you pointed out was the high wing loading...which does really correspond to the Spitfire. Anyone....anyone.....Bueller?
[/b]

I started it because it didn't cleary state that. I gave that quote because that is the basis of the elliptical design(that particular planes wing. Look at a 3-view drawing of it.. it's the same wing.
-SW

[LJK Raubvogel]

 
oops

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 11-01-2000).]

[HABICHT]

Sorry guys, VERMILLION is 100% right.

i read this article and thought to myselfe
(an LW fan) DOH!!!!!!!!.

the briths were totally crazy when they saw the he70 design. they liked the plane more
than the germans.
it reached 463km/h with the KESTREL XVI engine, and with the PEREGRINE(845ps) it reached 481km/h at 5000m. they took the he70
into a "windkanal"(don't know english word,
but it's the thing with the strong wind to
simulate airspeed) to get his aerodynamic
secrets. end of 1939 it was out of service
at rolls-royce and 1945 it was destroyed.
supermarine aviation was deeply impressed from the quality of the surface of the he70.
they wrote in a letter to heinkel, that they
didn't reached such a perfect finish even in their "schneider-tropy" raceplanes. letter was from 1933. they althought didn't believed, that such a great surfaces could  be done on a metall fuselage. all in all, the supermarine engeniers were DEPLY impressed by the he70.
beverley shenstone wrote 1958!(death of ernst heinkel) that the he70 was the aerodynamical model of the performance calculations for the spitfire.

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[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 11-01-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

So, if the Germans did indeed develope the first eliptical wing, then how come they didn't use it?  That 109 sure ain't the same wing as the Spit...

Or, did it take the Brits to refine the Germans first attempt at a nice planeform?  

[Karnak]

HABICHT,
"Windkanal" in english is "Windtunnel".

Sisu
-Karnak

[HABICHT]

RIPSNORT, THAT's a dammed good question!

don't know it.
but it was good. so i can B&Z now and don't
have to turn all the day....

WHY IS THIS DAMMED PIC IN FIRST POST NOT
SHOWING????

[GrinBird]

I have allways wondered why so many Americans seems to really hate the Spitfire.. Jealous or what?
Same time I also wonder why the P51 is allways referred to as "the Caddilac of the Sky" when it was a plane produced in America after British specifications, and was a British plane through most of the war. Actually the original plane was pretty unuseable untill the Brits had modified it a lot and put a proper British engine in it. Wouldent it be more correct to call it the Rolls Royce of the Sky?

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GrinBird

[J_A_B]

Some pointers~

The P-51A--with the AMERICAN engine--was the fastest plane in the ETO under 10k at the time of its introduction, and it was VERY successful in the roles it was used for.  It posessed greater range than any of the British fighters and was highly successful for photo recon and light strikes.  It was most definately NOT "unusable."   Indeed, the British considered it to be the best American fighter to date.

Unfortunately, compared to its later British-engined sibling, people forget that the P-51A (Mustang I) was quite successful in its own right.

As for the Merlin engine, Both the British and the Americans experimented with it in the P-51 at the same time.  Too bad they spent over a year haggling over it, or we could have had P-51B's in the beginning of 1943  

Also, I don't know of any Americans who "hate" the spitfire, and there is certainly no reason to be "jealous" of it.  The Spit was probably the best defensive fighter of the war (piston-engined, at least).    Likewise, the P-51 was probably the best long-range escort fighter of the war.  Americans might like the P-51 better--but then again, British like the Spit better and Germans like the FW-190 better.

J_A_B

Oh yeah, what was this thread about?

[gatt]

Macchi's ate Spitfire's even in thirties   The seaplane world speed record is still hold by the mighty Macchi MC72. October 23, 1933:

 

... The chronometry officials are present, there is a slight wind rippling the water surface. The sky is covered and the weather begins to change only after 1:00 P.M. At 1:50 P.M. everybody takes his place and the pilot gets into his plane. At 1:56 P.M. He takes off after an interminable run up. Visibility is far from excellent. For turnnig Agello takes the Montichiari church dome as orientation point. With a baffing speed of 709 km/h he makes four passes and establishes a record that will never be beaten by any seaplane with piston engine. One has to wait August 7, 1961 before the Russian Nicolaï Andrievski does better with a jet seaplane...

 

[Hangtime]

LOL.. dammo.. more old wives tales.

The Spit was a direct offshoot of the S series of sea-plane racers that eventually ended the Schneider Cup competitions by outclassing the compettion by an incredible margin.. then the fastest plane in the world; it was ironic it sat on floats. England (thanks to Supermarine) was the first country to win the tri-annual race 3x in a row... and the great Schnider Cup Races became legend. At this point in history; AIR RACING was the largest national spectator sport in the world; eclipsing even baseball; soccer or anthing else ever concieved..

 

Ever since Curtiss decided to stick the stab on the back end of a fuselage; everybody has plagerised everybody elses work in aircraft design. The elliptical tip was not a German invention; nor was it a British invention. The French used it first.  

As far at the P51 is concerened; I've heard this "British Design" nonsense before.. the facts are:

"In April of 1940, Kindelberger (NA C.E.O) was summoned by the British Air Purchasing Commision and asked to manufacture the Curtiss Hawk 87 (P-40D) under license for the RAF. Kindelberger responded that NAA could do that if it were really required, but countered that he and his company could build a better fighter than the P-40 and that they could design a REAL fighter in the same time that it would take to put the P-40 into production. The British commission felt that they could take Kindelberger at his word, and on April 10, 1940 they accepted his proposal on the condition that the first prototype be ready in 120 days. The design was assigned the company project name of Model NA-73.

At that time, the USAAC reserved for itself the right to block any foreign aircraft sales that it regarded as not in the Army's interest, for whatever reason. On May 4, 1940, the US Army reluctantly agreed not to block the British sale, but they added a condition. Two examples of the initial NA-73 lot for Britain were to be transferred to the USAAC for testing free of charge."

So; in short, British NEED for the plane inspired its initial full scale production; (Kindleberger already had the plane designed on 'spec' by his own team; a key member of that team reportedly having been involved in the development of the bf-109) but it's DESIGN and concept was American as apple pie; baseball and Superman. Further, it's success as the pre-eminent escort fighter for the allies was an AMERICAN accomplishment. If the Britsh could have done it; they WOULD have.  

Hang




[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 11-01-2000).]

[Kieren]

 

Originally posted by GrinBird:
I have allways wondered why so many Americans seems to really hate the Spitfire.. Jealous or what?
Same time I also wonder why the P51 is allways referred to as "the Caddilac of the Sky" when it was a plane produced in America after British specifications, and was a British plane through most of the war. Actually the original plane was pretty unuseable untill the Brits had modified it a lot and put a proper British engine in it. Wouldent it be more correct to call it the Rolls Royce of the Sky?

Hangtime got it right- and there isn't a shred of fact in anything said in the above quote.

The Allison Mustang was good- the Rolls Mustang was better. Fact is, I wish we could have the P51A; it would be far more maneuverable than the D we have now, and raise more than a few eyebrows down low.  

[Pongo]

Was not the bmw 801 considered a development of the wasp?