Author Topic: Loyalty rewards  (Read 1664 times)

Offline -lynx-

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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2000, 09:32:00 AM »
 
Quote
Yes, but there *is* competition out there for Aces High.
Bummer - here's one that just wouldn't go away

But of course there *isn't* Spat! Let me put it this way:

Porsche vs. Ford - is there a competition? No, there's *none* cuz Porsche caters for customers who don't make their buying decision based on whether they get a free set of mats thrown in. They're buying Porsche cuz they know what they buying - performance, quality, image. Ford customers... err... Oh well, somebody's gotta buy them, right?

BTW, if you can't afford a Porsche it doesn't make you any worse a person - you just can't afford one, OK? In good old WB days many were stating that they would ditch AW, FA whatever if they were able to afford WB hourly rate cuz they saw superior product.

Anyway - HTC may think up schemes to entice more people to sign up, including different pricing schemes. They also may offer bulk purchase discounts - improves cashflow. But offering existing customers discounts or incentives of any sort is a waste of money - we are not here because it's cheaper then the "competition". We are here because it's better, OK?

p.s. There's nothing free in the world - so incentives of any sort *cost* money...



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lynx
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Offline Spatula

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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2000, 01:38:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by -lynx-:
[B
Porsche vs. Ford - is there a competition? No, there's *none* cuz Porsche caters for customers who don't make their buying decision based on whether they get a free set of mats thrown in. They're buying Porsche cuz they know what they buying - performance, quality, image. Ford customers... err... Oh well, somebody's gotta buy them, right?  (Image removed from quote.)
[/B]

What if you really like Fords but the model you like aint out yet, so for the meantime, while the model is getting on the production line, you buy a porsche to fill the need for a fast car?   See the parallels? WW2OL? WB3?

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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2000, 03:25:00 PM »
 
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Originally posted by Spatula:
If it makes "no business sense" then why do airlines ... You dont have to look very far to see thousands of schemes like this.
...
It *does* make sense.

 Spatula,
 If there are thousands of schemes like that employed by businessess, then why does each of them has a markering department where highly educated smart people with MBAs and PhDs are paid higher salaries then those that actually produce the product?
 The truth is that every single scheme is different, requiring extensive research and testing.
 You only see the results and they all look the same to you because you are ignorant in that area. There is nothing wrong with that kind of ignorance as long as you do not start shooting your mouth about things you know little about.
 Can you tell high-quality steel from low quality steel by sight? Can you tell whether normal or lognormal distribution better describes stock market volume? Can you tell a super-productive genetically engineered milk cow from a meat cow? Probably not.
 Can you tell a diference between selling a commodity available from many sources (airlines) and unique custom product available from at most two vendors and substantially dissimilar at that? Obviously not!
 Why do you think you know enough about marketing schemes to argue?

 When I post statements on gunnery or milirary I make sure to mention that I served in the military and rode T72 and when I talk about Russia I state that I lived there for a quarter of a century. I could even say something about US healthcare based on my sister being a nurse.
 I would be sure to listen to your opinion on drumming, surfing, New Zeland polytics or whatever you are programming in. I am sure you are a smart and quite knowlegeable specialist in your areas of expertise.

 Please, do be offended. I tend to put my foot in my mouth quite often. Your first post is quite all right - a question, suggestion and request for comments that could extend anybody's knowlege. Your following posts are much more forcefull and argumentative, while unsubstantiated other then by unrelated examples. If you had some specific knowlege or contacts in the marketing area you should have supplied some data to support your claims. It is pretty obvious from your post that you do not.

 As for the loyalty rewards, HTC may implement such a scheme for the same or very different reasons that you mentioned if and when sircumstances demand that.
 No matter what they do, they will keep the reasons secret because that kind of information is highly proprietary and costs company lots of money (and bad will - as in the latest HTC price study) to obtain.

Why am I replying to you here instead of sending a personal e-mail?
 I resent that people like you are exciting others and making them believe that they are entitled to something in a way of a price cut. It is not healthy for the company and the game.
 First six months all you could hear on this board was how much better AH was at $30 per months then WB at hundreds $$ per month many of us spent. Now $30 for much better product seems too much to you. You may not believe it but I've seen statements on this and other boards that all internet and other entertainment should be free! Such pople are used to crappy free games offered by various sites and paid for by ads and think that is OK. They propagated the Freehost as a "protest" against corporate profit-making forgetting that someone must make those nice things. As a software engineer you should know better how much it costs. Decent programmer routinely gets paid over $100,000/year here in New York. That is 278 $30/year accounts!

 You have $10 sims with no ongoing development (hence very low expenses) for years. You have $10 sims that operate for years at a loss, run by huge corporations with bottomless pockets in order to ensure "presence" and "market share". Unfortunately those sims are crap.

 HTC is a great game developing at breackneck speed. It costs money. We need to encourage more people to join and pay $30, not discourage existing customers from paying current rate.

 As for people who cannot currently afford AH and squeak about it? I have much less sympathy for them now then I had to people who could not afford WB. After all, AH gives us free unlimited 8-person play, not crappy H2H with simplified FM of WB! How many people are content with that and never subscribe?
 I would doubt how smart that was on HTC's part if I did not believe they kneww what they were doing based on their hard-earned reputation.

Regards,
miko

Offline Westy

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« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2000, 03:52:00 PM »
 Wonderfully stated Miko!  That part of your letter captures the essence of my thoughts regarding the comments from many people in regard to AH pricing.  

 (The first part is all between you and him and I make NO comment on that at all)

  <S> and thank you.

  -Westy

=================================

  I resent that people like you are exciting others and making them believe that they are entitled to something in a way of a price cut. It is not healthy for the company and the game.
First six months all you could hear on this board was how much better AH was at $30 per months then WB at hundreds $$ per month many of us spent. Now $30 for much better product seems too much to you. You may not believe it but I've seen statements on this and other boards that all internet and other entertainment should be free! Such pople are used to crappy free games offered by various sites and paid for by ads and think that is OK. They propagated the Freehost as a "protest" against corporate profit-making forgetting that someone must make those nice things. As a software engineer you should know better how much it costs. Decent programmer routinely gets paid over $100,000/year here in New York. That is 278 $30/year accounts!
You have $10 sims with no ongoing development (hence very low expenses) for years. You have $10 sims that operate for years at a loss, run by huge corporations with bottomless pockets in order to ensure "presence" and "market share". Unfortunately those sims are crap.
HTC is a great game developing at breackneck speed. It costs money. We need to encourage more people to join and pay $30, not discourage existing customers from paying current rate.
As for people who cannot currently afford AH and squeak about it? I have much less sympathy for them now then I had to people who could not afford WB. After all, AH gives us free unlimited 8-person play, not crappy H2H with simplified FM of WB! How many people are content with that and never subscribe?
I would doubt how smart that was on HTC's part if I did not believe they kneww what they were doing based on their hard-earned reputation.
Regards,
miko

Offline qts

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« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2000, 04:09:00 PM »
Greybeard - there are some boob-tubes I could watch all night :}

Offline Spatula

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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2000, 02:57:00 PM »
 
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Originally posted by miko2d:
The truth is that every single scheme is different, requiring extensive research and testing.

Yup, this is why i suggested it to HTC to *do* that research and make a decision based on that rather than my ramblings.

 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

You only see the results and they all look the same to you because you are ignorant in that area.

You loose *all* credibility with this statement. Making personal attacks on the people you are debating points with is not needed.

 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

There is nothing wrong with that kind of ignorance as long as you do not start shooting your mouth about things you know little about.

When did i make a claim to being an expert in marketing? I bought a point up, you counter-argued and i set about counter-arguing your point.


 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

 Can you tell high-quality steel from low quality steel by sight? Can you tell whether normal or lognormal distribution better describes stock market volume? Can you tell a super-productive genetically engineered milk cow from a meat cow? Probably not.
 Can you tell a diference between selling a commodity available from many sources (airlines) and unique custom product available from at most two vendors and substantially dissimilar at that? Obviously not!

I dont need to know any of that trivia to argue a point.

 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

Why do you think you know enough about marketing schemes to argue?

I dont. Im not auguing marketing schemes, i suggested one and argued some points to at least try give the idea *some* credence.


 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

Your following posts are much more forcefull and argumentative, while unsubstantiated other then by unrelated examples.

I make no apologies for being argumentative, as thats in my nature. My examples are related to the point i tried to make otherwise i wouldnt have put them in.

 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

As for the loyalty rewards, HTC may implement such a scheme for the same or very different reasons that you mentioned if and when sircumstances demand that.

If my post made HTC even think a little about my original idea, then it suceeded in its original goal, irrespective of if they do it or not.


 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

Why am I replying to you here instead of sending a personal e-mail?

I suspect its because you're as stubornly argumentative as i am  


 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

I resent that people like you are exciting others and making them believe that they are entitled to something in a way of a price cut. It is not healthy for the company and the game.

You resent people like me? *how in the hell* do you know what people "like me" are like - you've never meet me. You resent people who rally the masses into presuring HTC into giving people cheap deals? free rides? discounts? Then you have contradicted yourself and it proves you have misunderstood me from the start - as i am *not* trying to do this. I mentioned it in the hope that HTC consider it, or something like it, and as you said: "that every single scheme is different, requiring extensive research and testing.
", and to do that research. HTC may well have been considering this before i mentioned it, maybe not, i just wanted to bring it to their attention - thats all. And i did.
I'm more than happy to pay HTC $30 per month, i would happily pay more. Like you said software engineers are paid good money, so money aint an an obstacle to me. My original intention was to help HTC keep some people who would have left, or are thinking of leaving (which we dont want).

 
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:

HTC is a great game developing at breackneck speed. It costs money. We need to encourage more people to join and pay $30, not discourage existing customers from paying current rate.

well we agree on something it seems.


I dont even know this thread is continuing. lets just say we agree to disagree on this. I wont convince you of my points and vice versa. But please dont make assumptions about me personally or call me ignorant and that resent "people like me", its not me i set out to argue.
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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2000, 07:01:00 PM »
 Spatula,
 Yes, my arguments look a bit more forcefull and less civil then they would be if I slept a night on them...   Sorry.

 By "people like you" I only mean those misguided souls demanding lower prices. I am not referring to any of you other qualities.
 You may not be "pressurung" HTC to give discounts, just suggest it, but many people may, after reading mesages like that. Of course it is your right to post whatever you wish.
 It may not have been your intent to rally the masses, just suggest to HTC, but this is a forum, not an e-mail. Everything posted here is directed to the masses.
 I think that some things, like cheating accusations and pricing requests are better handled discretely via e-mail even if valid because they always raise unhealthy attitudes.

As for the argument itself, I am really cheating!  . While  I am not a marketing expert, I am expert enough in my area to know how different an expert opinion is from a laymans' one. So I am pretty safe arguing for the status quo - because if I was wrong, marketing experts employed by HTC would have done things differently already.
 Also as a kind of expert in statistical analysis, I have the following view:
 Peope who run the companies are usually more qualified in the business then average customers.
 If I saw half of the people arguing for higher prrice and half of the peoope arguing for lower price, I would abstain from any conclusion - all three groups (companies included) may have many valid reasons.
 Since I have yet to see a post demanding HTC to raise prices and plenty of posts "suggesting" lower prices I conclude that those people are either incompetent in that area or acting out of selfishness.

 There are too many variables in the market research to use any of them to illustrate any point. For every guy who will switch to new game Z unless the price is reduced, you may have another one joining because more expensive product may seem more superior.
 One $30 customer, once joined, is likely to stick for a while. So the growth will be more predictable and regulated. $10 guys may jump in in droves, driving arenas to overfill and connection quality to the ground and other customers away, make company buy more hardware, office space and support personnel, then quit and leave HTC holding the bag.

 There is no way to easily compare that. What they do is run some kind of statistical multivariate analysis and get some optimal price not even knowing why it is the optimal price.

 If a marketing person came to you and told you that in his opinion a multithreaded program is better then a single-threaded one you would think him a moron even though he may be right in some cases. I believe some marketing people are laughing about us now.

 My whole point is - we do not know enough to argue about it.

 Again, I tried attack your view, not your personality and I only presumed your "ignorance" in marketing area.

Regards,
miko