Why the filter exists.

[Swager]

Removed the filter from the squad channel???

Why would ya want to type swear words at your squadies???

I mean, there your squadies.......


 

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by Thog:
I guess the thing that I've found really appalling is the sheer number of people who are delighted by all this.  I think at best censorship is to be tolerated.  Revelling in banning behavior you don't personally agree with shows a remarkable lack of foresight.

Hi Thog.... <S>

I promised myself I'd stay out of HT's thread as in his own distinct style   , he directly addressed the issue from both a personal and corporate perspective.  Unfortunately, after reading your eloquent and reasoned response, I got to the end and was appalled that you were appalled at this community enthusiastically endorsing HTC's policy and enforcement practices of restricting use of public profanity with their product.

I can't speak for the community, but personally I don't view HTC's actions to be anything except good leadership representation supporting the current standard of behavior condoned by the vast majority of the AH membership.  Note the use of the operative word "behavior".  This isn't about censorship of being able to have access to or view Playboy and Hustler, but rather about what HTC and the existing AH community considers acceptable behavior in their public venues.  If you wish to read Playboy or shout obscenities at the top of your lungs in the privacy of your own domain, go right ahead.

Your argument seems to infer that the issue is analogous to some "top down" state controlled attempt to "reform" the masses to their way of thinking.  It couldn't be further from the truth and the whole approach of your argument style smacks of left wing politically correct academia run amuck.  You are obviously an articulate and well educated individual with an extreme passion to protect individual rights, however, if one takes your rationale to its ultimate end, then we should be protecting pedophiles and permitting them to trade child pornography openly on the Internet.

Pedophilia is a behavior that is today unacceptable to the vast majority of our society.  We have actually instituted laws that protect us from it, just as there were laws (perhaps still are in some regions) on the books about using vulgarity in public.   I would bet that you, as I,  neither support, condone or want to be part of any community that would permit this kind of deviant behavior.  In fact, we enthusiastically support legislative banning and policing of this perverse sexual activity.  I doubt you'd say that "Revelling in banning behavior you don't personally agree with shows a remarkable lack of foresight." under those circumstances.  Why not?  The answer is obvious, unlike the expressions of profanity in public environments, this particular behavior does indeed exceed your own personal tolerance level and standards of morality, yes?

I guess my point is, where does one's own personal boundary of freedom of action and individual expression end?  You find Playboy to be more preferable in "tone and taste" than Hustler, but I would venture to guess that many women and perhaps most of an older generation find both, to borrow your phrase about Hustler, "demeaning".

Quite simply, HTC's and this community's tolerance ended at public displays of vulgarity within their product as being inappropriate behavior.  Hence, HT's action to represent the cultural standards of this closed private group of paying players.  There's nothing more or nothing less to this argument, so trying to defend its centralized implementation as being akin to some encroachment on one's personal rights to individually choose freedoms is inappropriate and deflects from the real issue.

Players like "joemud" elected to leave, although I have yet to see any others openly decide that the issue breaches their own personal freedoms to the point they felt they could no longer be members of this community.  Make no mistake, standards change over time as each generation of society accepts and redefines what is appropriate in public behavior.  The day that HTC liberalizes vulgarity as being acceptable in their public arenas, then I'm sure "joemud" and I will be shaking hands in the electronic doorway as he re-enlists and I depart.  That's how one exercises individual and personal rights of choice.

Respectfully,
Badger


Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
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[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Eagler]

HT
Thank you for the filter, AH will gain more than they will lose from it. Someone needs to control those who can't control themselves.
cu
Eagler

[Ripsnort]

 

BotaBoom:"Well now that everyone is done smooching hitech's ass, I'll go ahead and give an honest response..snip"

Bota, FYI, no one gains by 'kissing his ass', we simply are HTC fans since they work hard to produce some entertainment as well as an escape for all of us in the real world.  Call it ass-kissing if you'd like, I call it respect for someone that makes a product that keeps me happy...give and take.

WTG , HT, however I too would like to see the racial slurs added. Especially "nigga" , "cupcake" and "Jap" since those are known to offend people currently flying in this sim.  Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Skuzzy]

Hmmm,...well, I think HT is doing nothing more than taking control of a situation the community imposed on him.

Personally, I enjoy it when someone tells me I have done a good job.  I also expect the be crucified when I do a lousy job.
I feel for people that, from their own perspective, cannot enjoy this.  
Labeling people as suck-ups if they complement me on a job well done really would reduce the amount joy I get from working so hard.

We can bash the "what", "why" or "how" till we are blue in the face.  From what I can tell, the results have been rather surprising.  I find all the radio channels to be more pleasant and funny now.  Maybe it is the times I log on,...I really don't know.  But I am very happy with the results.

Right or wrong, it was a gutsy move on the part of HTC and whether you like it or not, respect dictates the following response:

WTG!


------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net

[funked]

Good point Fats.  HTC should filter any non-english words.

 

[Swager]

As Always Badger!  Nice write-up!!!

<S>

[fats]

Funked,

Even though a joke - IMO there still should be a client-side-filter, at the minimum, for the benefit of non-english speaking players.

I am quite confident that HTC will not invest time to gather a bad word dictionary for all the nationalities of their player base on their server.


// 00/09/26 fats

[Thog]

Badger, on a time crunch so I can't do your answer justice, but here's a shot;

1)  Never meant to imply that HT was reveling in censorship.  He seems to be pretty clinical about it, whether I agree with him or not.

2)  The AH community includes me, even if I'm an unenthusiastic participant in the normal board-bashing.  It also includes others who disagree with this, whether I personally like or agree with them or not.  Thus the problem with claiming community as a cause; the whole community is not on your side.  

Look, the point on pedophilia is taken, but as I said, the difference between theory and practice is going to get sticky. This is what your left-wing acadamians don't get (you'd laugh at this in reference to me if you met me).  It's NOT an easy decision.  I don't 'enthusiastically' support anti-kiddy porn legislation, I warily support it.  Where I worry is who is going to decide how far that law goes (does it include any woman under 21?  Does it get expanded into other pornography, as the gun laws tend to get expanded into general gun ownership?).  So I have no enthusiasim for it, but yes I do support it.

What bothers me is how happy so many people are to see their social preferences shoved down my throat.  I really can't see any other word for it.  And if that's something you're ok with, then we have radically different views on both what's right and on what history teaches us.

As I said, it's HTC's game.  And they have instituted a top down approach on this which I disagree with.  But I've about burned the amount of time I've allocated to addressing the issue as a whole, since AH simply isn't -that- signifigant to my life. Won't stop playing, but I've said my piece.

HT: Good point.  Difference in perspective though (the problem with those kinds of comparisions, which I got started with <g> ).  Essentially this says that people who swear on-line are not your desired market, period.  Unless it's on squad channel.  But it's not thier option to decide if they want to hear it anywhere else.  So if they swear on squad channel, but are ok with having you decide what they can or cannot hear in the rest of the game, they are your desired market?  Ok, now I don't get it.

In short, it looks like a confused and cobbled policy, when you have an elegant and equally effective solution at hand.

Thog

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by Thog:
Badger, on a time crunch so I can't do your answer justice, but here's a shot;

Thanks for the feedback.... <S>

Some excellent food for thought and discussion.......

 

This is what your left-wing acadamians don't get (you'd laugh at this in reference to me if you met me).

It would be great to meet sometime.  I sent you data via email.  I work out of Toronto and am in Phoenix at least one week a month.  If you ever get up our way, call if you get a chance.

Regards,
Badger

[arhurb]

<S> Thog. Ditto.

If anybody thinks that server side filtering is anywhere near to solving the problem of Arena atmosphere, take a look at the thread started by fradim. And what Westy pointed out. It is a matter of respect. In an international, multicultural, multirracial virtual community. No way anything can impose mutual respect. It is impossible not to offend anyone. Even with our shiny server filter there will be offended people. Both the cursing ones and the plainly offended ones (see fradim). So what's the point of all of this noise? Who are the beneficiaries of this? Is this filter gonna solve the problem? No? Should we implement yet another filter? To what extent? Who decides? On what terms?

Again and again, self control. First and most, not to offend anyone. Failing to have this, control over what gets into your puter. And each one decides.

Cheers,

Pepino.

[Wanker]

Thog said:

What bothers me is how happy so many people are to see their social preferences shoved down my throat.

Ok Thog, but it's a two way street, isn't it? Someone who swears a blue streak on the open channel is shoving their moral preferences down my throat, aren't they?

Face it, what's really pissing those perveyors of profanity off about this whole thing, is that they won't be getting the attention they crave. They're not happy with being able to swear out loud by themselves. They want everyone to see and KNOW how upset they are.

[Fury]

Thanks HTC.

Ass-kisser Fury

[Thog]

banana, yes, and if there was no way for HTC to implement a client side filter, and thus no way for you to protect yourself from some mindless fool, then you would have a point.

But there is a way for each to decide for themselves, rather than have the decision made for us.  So in this case, your morality is shoved down my throat and I have no control aside from opting out altogether,  when the option exists for both of us to go about our merry way without imposing our likes and dislikes on eachother.  

As to perveyors of profanity getting ticked; well, I'm annoyed, but I rarely swear on-line.  I don't remember the last time I sweared AT someone unless it was a known friend and a joke.  So I think you're oversimplifying on that one.

Thog

[BD]

Kudos to HT!

What Badger said, and more.

BD