Author Topic: What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?  (Read 6906 times)

Offline Airhead

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What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?
« Reply #135 on: November 19, 2003, 03:52:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Now who's baiting whom?

Rush Limbaugh? C'mon, try harder.

The very reason there are unions in the first place is what you are discussing. The fact they protect people they should not should be obvious as well.

I'm not the one with the blinders on, pal.


Sorry Kieran, it was this line here-

"Certainly liberals tend to think we cannot take care of ourselves, and certainly they believe it is the government's job to do so."-

that sounded like it was something Rush Limbaugh would say.

Whatever, the Liberal opinion is that OSHA, minimum wages and work places made less hazardous by banning cigarette smoke are a good thing, and something I wish my Government to regulate and control.

Your stated opinion is that the Government should keep out of  worker safety and other labor issues which protect workers- which I presume to be the conservative viewpoint on this particular issue.

No problem- you are a stated conservative and I am a stated liberal. I was trying to illustrate the difference in the two points of view on this issue without the usual anti-liberal or anti-conservative rheteroic. I thought you could discuss this without resorting to that, too- guess I was wrong. (shrug) Like I said, whatever- pal.
:rolleyes:

Offline Kieran

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What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?
« Reply #136 on: November 19, 2003, 05:26:14 PM »
You're not my pal? If you think I am angry or trying to be offensive, my apologies, but I am not.

Offline Airhead

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What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?
« Reply #137 on: November 19, 2003, 09:37:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
You're not my pal? If you think I am angry or trying to be offensive, my apologies, but I am not.


Actually you are on my top 10 list of posters I most enjoy reading. Hey, if I were President I'd name you as my Secretary of Education.

I didn't sense anger or offensiveness, but I sensed a bit of disengenousness. If you wish to debate the need of Government in the workplace then I'm your Huckleberry. If you wish to make grandoise "profound" statements about the motives of Liberals instead of debating the issue then that's cool too, but every Board we post to does that already.

No biggie, bud, I thought an explanation of why we feel the way we do about issues might start a dialogue and we (read left and right) might understand each other better. For that to work we have to quit bleating like sheep the old "four legs good two legs bad" mantra and present reasonable arguments without a personal attack.

Offline Kieran

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What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?
« Reply #138 on: November 20, 2003, 06:25:24 AM »
Once again, I intended no personal attack and apologize if it read that way.

Offline Kieran

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What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?
« Reply #139 on: November 20, 2003, 09:32:35 AM »
I have a little time here (lunch), so let me explain a little better...

I think the stereotypes of conservatives and liberals are to a great extent true.

Conservatives are generally pro-business, fend-for-yourself type people. They are not big on race or sexual orientation laws. They tend to be religious, or more to the religious end. They tend to want to keep what they feel they have earned, and resent what they feel is a redistribution of wealth. They tend to fight against sweeping social laws that impact everyone irrespective of the need for such laws for the bulk of people.

Liberals tend to want the government to make decisions for us. They want sharper regulations on business. They want to ensure equality for everyone. Some honestly feel some people have too much money and it should be redistributed. Their view of government is government is here to protect us, and to help us when we are down-and-out. Liberals tend to be more secular, shunning religion and religious values. Liberals tend to continue to fight for race, gender, and sexual orientation equality. Liberals tend to believe that certain programs are entitlements, and tend to create more entitlements all the time- at the taxpayers' expense.

Unions were originated in response to business total disdain for the workforce. Unions discovered business couldn't be in business without workers, and a walkout turned out to be a pretty powerful tool. And work it did- and still does, to a point. However, with the trend of business relocating overseas because of the high cost of production in America, unions are greatly reduced in strength. This forces them to create alliances with some pretty unsavory groups to maintain a modicum of lobbying power. Taking the teachers' union (NEA) as an example, we've wound up allied with organizations that support or promote activities such as abortion. I am firmly against abortion, therefore I cannot support my union. Oh sure, there are other reasons I choose not to be a member, but let me tell you, this one alone would be enough for me to withhold my membership.

Government interference in all walks of life have made life harder, not easier, to live. California is going down the tubes quickly and visibly, and it is largely due to the government's actions in industry and social life. Beat business to death with restrictions, beat taxpayers to death with referendum legislation funded on the taxpayers' dime (and is nearly impossible to reverse once in place) and what do you get? People and business moving the heck out of California as fast as they can. Add to that inane liberal law such as the California drivers' license for illegals fiasco and yeah... what a screwed up mess it is. It would be hard to argue less government in California would be worse than what they have now, wouldn't it? The tax base is leaving... once it is gone, who's going to pick up the tab on the social programs?

When you think about it, California serves as a pretty good case study as to what happens when the government gets too involved.

Offline Kieran

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What is it with this 'Liberal' thing?
« Reply #140 on: November 20, 2003, 08:02:09 PM »
Aw, c'mon Airhead, tell me you still love me... is it my fault I didn't know you were serious?