Author Topic: more democrat hipocracy  (Read 3138 times)

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2003, 06:29:57 PM »
Since you asked, how about Trent Lott and Robert Byrd for starters? Specific enough?

Quote
Originally posted by MRPLUTO
AKIron,

Which fault of conservatives is it that is condemned only when they do it?

And which faults of liberals are overlooked?

Certainly, so-called "reverse" discrimination by liberals has been widely discussed and criticized in the media, hasn't it?

Clue us in with some specifics, please.

****************

By the way, I think equating the Democrat's opposition to 4 judges (vs. 168 approved) to a lynching is pretty ridiculous, no matter who says it.

MRPLUTO
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2003, 06:45:08 PM »
Some of you DOLTS (again thanks HT) are missing the point here:

reguardless if they are trying to opose her for being republican...civil rights groups went after Sen. Zell Miller, D-Georgia for repeating comments made by a black journalist.

HE'S TRYING TO GET HER APPOINTED...THATS WHY THE COMMENTS ARE BEING SHUNNED!

the other point would be that civil rights groups (who are usually librals) arent saying A WORD to help this woman out.  

SO sandman there's your hipocracy:

if she was a libral and the republicans were opposing her the black activists would be all over this screaming racism and such

since she's a republican they remain silent

Offline MRPLUTO

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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2003, 08:28:10 PM »
AKIron,

Thank you for being specific...now we have something to talk about:

Sen.  Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK, it's true.  He is no longer, and, to the best of my knowledge, has not expressed pro-segregationist beliefs in a long, long time, and I believe has renounced them.

George Wallace repudiated his racist beliefs as well.  For that matter, so did Strom Thurmond, if I'm not mistaken.

And because they did, they were/are accepted as leaders by the citizenry.

Now, imagine if tomorrow Byrd came out with a statement that, "Segregation would have been a better path for our country."  He would catch worse flak than a Lanc formation over a CV group at 5k.  His power would evaporate instantly...the Democrats themselves would want nothing to do with him.  His goose would be cooked.  Well, that's what Lott did; he said maybe we'd have been better off if a segregationist had been elected president.  Lott kept his seat in the Senate [note to NUKE: he did not lose his job], but you can't blame the Republicans for getting him out of leadership positions.  

That's the difference in the example you brought up: one man seems to have changed his beliefs, the other clearly has not.  That, or he's just incredibly stupid while trying to be polite, which I believe was his excuse.  Either way, a Republican or Democrat  lamenting the end of racial segregation would be crucified by his own party.



Any other examples?


*************************

Gunslinger,

Your point is well made.  There are many activists who use the race card at every possible occaision, whether or not there is any merit to the charge.  In this case, they certainly can't charge racism however, since the nominees are opposed because of their beliefs, not their race.  (Or their party, for that matter.  If these people were Democrats with the identical ideology they'd still be unacceptable.)

But don't put all "black activists" (or any group) into such neat little boxes of limited beliefs.  As I pointed out above, you certainly wouldn't want liberals or black activists to automatically support candidates based on their race, since that would be racism.


*******************

NUKE,

Here's what I thought was misleading:  implying the liberal media was ignoring Ted Kennedy's rudeness; suggesting that the Democrats automatically support minorities, except when they are Republican; and accusing the Democrats of using illegal methods to block the nominations.

Also, I think you're wrong again...nominees can be rejected for their beliefs, not just thier qualifications, or lack of them.  Also, it's not unconstitutional to block the nominations with a filibuster.  Annoying, yes.  Illegal, no.

In the case of Estrada, there is very little written material available on his legal thinking and the Republicans aren't supplying much to evaluate him on.  That seems like a valid argument to hold his nomination up.

I agree with you that the Republicans should force the Democrats to have a real filibuster.

You're completely correct when you say that the Democrats don't want a pro-lifer in a position to get on the Supreme Court.  That is it, "in a nutshell", and it's the topic for a whole 'nuther post:  

"What would happen if the Christian Nationalist, errrr, I mean the Republican Party gained a solid majority in the legislature, held the Presidency for many years, and greatly increased its power in the courts?"  

Could they begin rolling back abortion rights, stop equal rights for gays & lesbians, etc., and keep a majority of the voters on their side?  And if they could, wouldn't the backlash by the large liberal minority cause the "Culture War" to heat up to dangerous levels?




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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2003, 08:48:14 PM »
Mr Pluto your post was well written, well thaught out, and very specific.  But I disagree with you.

My beliefs are that if the republicans were blocking a judge that happened to be black they'd be labled even more as "racists Neo-nazis"  reguardless of there beliefs.  I havnt heared one minority group make a peep about these judges and that to me is wrong.  I believe they dont care about them because they are republicans.  



Quote
you certainly wouldn't want liberals or black activists to automatically support candidates based on their race, since that would be racism.


but this IS what they do.  They support there own kind and lobby for programs that support THEM!

This is entirely another double standard because a white pride parade would be looked at as a skin head ralley and a black pride parade would just be a "celebration of culture" just look at febuary....that's black history month right.


now I havnt said anything bad about any particular minority except that they are biased.  With this line of thinking I'm considered a neo nazi racist because i'm not a libral.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2003, 08:51:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
overall they are doing what they have a right to do. and after your boys went after a sitting president....


all bets are off and your boys started it.
its funtime


you dont support black judges, you must be racist then

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2003, 09:35:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MRPLUTO
Now, imagine if tomorrow Byrd came out with a statement that, "Segregation would have been a better path for our country."  He would catch worse flak than a Lanc formation over a CV group at 5k.  His power would evaporate instantly...the Democrats themselves would want nothing to do with him.  His goose would be cooked.  Well, that's what Lott did; he said maybe we'd have been better off if a segregationist had been elected president.  
MRPLUTO


That isn't what Trent Lott said and I think you know it. You have changed what he said to suit your purpose.

I'll give you some more examples of the double standard so frequently embraced by liberals at another time.


Here's another off the top of head.

Bill Clinton womanizes to the point of sorely abusing his public position yet it is his personal life and he shouldn't be held politically accountable. Arnold Schwarzenegger womanizes as a private citizen yet he is burned at the stake by the same people so willing to look the other way when one of their own is guilty. Tell me that's not true?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2003, 09:41:06 PM by AKIron »
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2003, 09:41:50 PM »
So the civil rights groups are being hypocritical. Not the Democrats... got it.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2003, 11:06:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
SO sandman there's your hipocracy:

if she was a libral and the republicans were opposing her the black activists would be all over this screaming racism and such

since she's a republican they remain silent



... and this would be a example of such hypocrisy?

Quote
"I was offended. I think it was unfortunate," Daschle said. "I think those within the civil rights leadership who have commented and have asked for an apology are right."
sand

Offline MRPLUTO

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« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2003, 11:31:44 PM »
This is what Lott said:

"When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him.  We're proud of it.  And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years either."

Remember, Thurmond's political platform was explicitly racist: "We stand for the segregation of the races, and for the integrity of each race."

Some more quotes from Lott's past make it perfectly clear what he thinks:

1992:  Lott was the keynote speaker at the Conservative Citizen's Council, an openly racist and anti-semitic group.  He told them:  "The people in this room stand for the right principles and the right philosophy."

1980:  Lott spoke at a Republican rally, telling the Mississippi crowd, if we had elected Thurmond "30 years ago, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today."

I do not think I distorted Sen. Lott's beliefs at all.  Again and again he has said we'd be better off today if we had elected a segregationist in 1948.

**********************

On the other hand, you have a pretty good point about Schwarzenegger.  There are some true liberal hypocrites who looked the other way at Clinton's atrocious behavior, but can't ignore Arnold's.  But in the end, both "got away" with it...Clinton wasn't impeached, and Arnold was elected.  Ultimately, the standard for both Repbulican & Democrat was, "We'll overlook this."

For the record, I didn't think Clinton should be impeached for the Lewinsky affair, but I do think the pardons he gave as he left office were very probably criminal.  But since he was leaving office, the Republicans didn't care.  Also, if I were a Californian, I think I might have voted to recall Davis and vote for Arnold.

*********************

Gunslinger,

I think minority groups are looking at the issues and not the party.  Nevertheless, I agree there are some kooks who would call you a racist neo-Nazi for opposing a non-white, even if you had very valid reasons for doing so.

Also, while I  believe that affirmative action was the necessary path at the time, it is not a solution to racism and lack of opportunity among minorities.

And as for the Black history months, I think we should simply have "Our History".

MRPLUTO
« Last Edit: November 16, 2003, 11:39:08 PM by MRPLUTO »

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2003, 11:48:26 PM »
Clinton was impeached.


he was impeached on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice ( for of inducing others to lie in order to conceal his affair with Ms. Lewinsky.)

Only the 2nd President in our history to be impeched.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2003, 11:55:57 PM by NUKE »

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2003, 11:54:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Clinton was impeached.



Yes he was... It ended with an acquittal.
sand

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2003, 11:57:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Yes he was... It ended with an acquittal.


The fact is that he was impeached and had to go to trial before the senate . Only the second president in US history.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2003, 01:43:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
... and this would be a example of such hypocrisy?


Quote
"I was offended. I think it was unfortunate," Daschle said. "I think those within the civil rights leadership who have commented and have asked for an apology are right."


DICK here was offended that a white democratic senator who supports a black republican judical nomne repeated what a black journalist had allready said

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2003, 08:37:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MRPLUTO
This is what Lott said:

"When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him.  We're proud of it.  And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years either."

Remember, Thurmond's political platform was explicitly racist: "We stand for the segregation of the races, and for the integrity of each race."
MRPLUTO


"Was" is the keyword there. It seems that you are saying Strom Thurmond, a 48 year US Senator, WWII Vet, Army Reserve Major General, had no other notable qualities than supporting segregation and that it could only be that that Trent Lott acknowledged on Thurmond's 100th birthday.

Is it necessary to condemn someone that may not agree completely with your ideaology? What if they value many of the same principles you adhere to? Can you not show appreciation for those without being branded a racist for supporting someone that was a segregationist 50 years ago?

Hypocrisy in politics? Most definitely, but I see a lot more of it among democrats than republicans. I admit being biased but that doesn't automatically make my observation invalid.
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Offline DmdNexus

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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2003, 11:01:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MRPLUTO
This is what Lott said:

"When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him.  We're proud of it.  And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years either."

MRPLUTO


I laugh when Republicans speak proudly that the GOP is the party of Lincoln...

Any one who knows his history, writing and speaches knows Lincoln was also a seperatist... he believed in colonization of blacks back to Africa... He did not want them running free in the north... nor did he want interracial marriages... he did not believe in equal rights for blacks.... he was a politician... championing anti-slavery only after the abolishionist movement became large enough to be an influence in elections.

O'tay.... how's that relevant to today?

It's not.... unless secretly Republicans continue this belief.

The Republican party continues to be the party of "the man." :rofl
Rich, white, anglo-saxon, protistant...sporkting power ties... wealth... and christian values.... not necessarily moral values.

Save the unborn babies... but kill 3rd world poor people through colonial agression and occupation...because their leaders are "Evil."

Save the unborn babies... force them to say prayers to a god they don't believe during school... and ensure they have their 2nd admendment rights to carry military assault rifles...never know when it's necessary to massacre fellow classmates...

Save the unborn babies.... but kill the rest of the population by allowing big business to polute the environment, polute 3rd world countries, and kill their workers with unsafe work practices ...

Hey at least unborn babies are being saved from abortion!...
that's the christian and moral thing to do.

Rant... rant... rant... rant.... :aok