Author Topic: p47-30 vrs 109g-10  (Read 1153 times)

Offline fuzeman

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Re: A suggestion from the enemy :)
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2003, 01:08:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wespe
Interesting debate ...


One last suggestion .. get a little time and FLY 109 in TA .. go to  10-15 K and DIVE .. take a look at the panel  see where is the point when u lose  control .. grab that in your brain and dont forget .. then  use it for ur advantage ...

Wishing you the  best in your efforts ...    Wespe !!!


Maybe you want to try that in the DA and not the TA. I think the TA has an arena stall limit on and some planes feel mushy in there. For true flight and gun lethality goto the DA for your testing and not the TA.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG54

Offline B17Skull12

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2003, 02:20:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Kronos, Drex, Lethturn, RA are true P47 demons
why isn't fester on that list?
II/JG3 DGS II

Offline BigMax

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2003, 05:55:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Am0n
so the jug can hang on its prop?


Juggy is the best Hammer-Heading plane in the game...  Get some alt, dive on a 109 and let him follow you up....  Do a HH at top, and blast them coming down...  (Be sure you start with a BIG E advantage);)

Offline Wespe

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2003, 07:02:34 PM »
"Maybe you want to try that in the DA and not the TA.."


:cool: :cool: :cool:

Long time without entering DA or TA .. practices makes a perfect ..

today I ve got shot down in MA more than  6 times  by US planes

:mad:

Thanks  for the point  Herr Fuze ... just trying to be  gentle with a fellow enemy :D :D :) :aok :aok

Offline Kweassa

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2003, 11:24:29 PM »
Slow speed handling, and I mean reallllly slow speed handling, is key to fighting against 109s for P-47s or P-51s.

 The 109s are competent and responsive enough to fight at low speeds, making a very tough opponent even for La-7s or Yak-9Us.. but once it gets down to really low speeds, around 150mph, there's practically no difference between a G-10 and a P-47D.

 Turning advantage almost disappears, acceleration as a means of escape, is neutralized, climb advantage becomes very hard to utilize, and the torque factor slowly becmes overwhelming. I've had some fantastic fights with great P-47D pilots in the G-10 at those low speed handling contests.

 Usually what happens is, when the Bf109 pilot becomes smug and confident about his handling advantage, he fearlessly steps up to the rolling scissors challenge - which he quickly finds that he can get advantageous positioning, but however, getting a firing solution trickier than expected.

 The fight is quickly brought down to treetop levels, and degrades into series of continuous flips, 180 rolls, scissors, and near-stall maneuvering. And at this situation, the P-47 is not such a slouch as expected. The 109 holds advantage in acceleration and slightly better turning. The P-47D holds advantage in less wobbliness, more stable roll, better flap usage and firepower. The two important advantages the 109 holds, is about the same as the three~four minor advantages the P-47 holds.

 So the fight becomes a contest of "who drives the plane slower, while turning harder, and rolling more often, and does not stall out first" Firing opportunitys are very rare for both opponents, and it becomes very breath taking.

 So, if there is absolutley no escape for the P-47, then the Jug might as well try to lure the 109 into serious of rolls and rolling scissors.

Offline Virage

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2003, 11:42:57 PM »
109g10 vs. p47d30

109 has angles and energy advantage.   P47 pilot would have to be much better than 109 pilot to win.

Only advantage p47 has over 109 is guns and ability to take damage.  

Scissor and HO your butt off if you are the 47 pilot.
JG11

Vater

Offline DoctorYO

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2003, 12:37:37 PM »
I have flown both aircraft extensively (not anymore planetside and chess taking my time)

From my Honest Opinion the p47 has zero chance vs 109 g10 considering equal pilots..

While frenchy is correct most 109s will immelman into orbit..  A ace will high yoyo you and saddle...

Its better rudder and acceleration will take it from there... (throttle management of course)  If a over shoot is possibble then lag induced roll will saddle you back up...

If the Jug dives and runs the 109 can just stay at alt and run them down with a lower IAS but a higher TAS (Indicated vs true airspeed)

The jug is just simply outclassed...  Now that doen't mean its a dog.  An expert in a inferior aircraft can beat a novice almost every time...

Also if the Jug begins with advantage the 8 50's make quick work of anything in less than 2 secs trigger time...

be very weary of g10's its hit and miss the large majority are novices but when you meet a ace trust me you'll know by the fact you have no time to react and the pressure is always on you..


Stick with the JUG though very fun airplane...  above 15k its starts to get very fast..  and can thwart off some of its disadvatages.

Kwessa makes a very good point he very correct with exception that the 109 when caught in such a fight can just turn away from the angles fight reaccelerate to ludicris speed and then repeat the process all over again.. While your jug is still floundering around.
(good tactic though Kwessa may buy enough time for friendly to clear, who knows)


2 cents


DoctorYo



PS listen to ammo, frenchy and sancho if he still flys... they know whats up when it comes to the JUG...

Offline bozon

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p47-30 vrs 109g-10
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2003, 04:31:52 PM »
I fly the jug a lot. the 109G10 completly outclasses it under 20k.

but it takes a guy who knows how to handle the 109's energy and keep it in a rather narrow preformance band. you can't just dive in at 500 mph or yank on the stick till the target is infront of you.
not to mention the terrible nose cannon (useless with my aiming).

lucky for the jug pilots, these guys are extremly rare.

above 20k, well that's another story.

Bozon
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