Author Topic: Berlin Airlift... Bring it on Boroda (Read 1224 times)

midnight Target · « **on:** November 20, 2003, 04:11:21 PM »

Please try to justify the blockade of an entire city...

I'll let you take the 1st shot even.

vorticon · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2003, 04:20:43 PM »

they didnt want anyone sneaking out vodka...or anyone bringing in low quality vodka then relableing it with high quality labels

i absalutly refuse to take any post seriously today...

aztec · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2003, 04:36:35 PM »

Maybe it's just me but I think it's incredibly inappropriate to specifically call out someone who you know has differnt viewpoints than your own in order to have a pi$$ing contest with them. You're not the only one here who does it MT and I think it's about time that kind of posting was brought to an end.

Just sayin.

BGBMAW · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2003, 05:19:43 PM »

i like iit..screw them..if they are wrong we will point it out..

its all tghe liberal wackos tht want to always say something complty false but keep saying it...

NO

WE WONT TAKE THAT CRAP..

you are wrong and we will prove it....

Love
BiGB
xoxo

but what do you do when u are born in a country that has doen so much more wrong then any countrys in history...its tuff..so dont pound on the commies toomuch..

john9001 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2003, 06:24:43 PM »

there was no berlin blockade, it's just dirty american propergander

midnight Target · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2003, 06:36:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by aztec
Maybe it's just me but I think it's incredibly inappropriate to specifically call out someone who you know has differnt viewpoints than your own in order to have a pi$$ing contest with them. You're not the only one here who does it MT and I think it's about time that kind of posting was brought to an end.

Just sayin.

I started this thread because I thought the subject was too good to get buried in the "Marshall Plan" thread. And I mentioned Boroda in the title based on his response to ME in the other thread:

Quote

I wonder if you know what was the real reson for "siege" of West Berlin and "Berlin airlift". I have studied this question a little since you asked me about it some time ago... Funny that I have to dig into memoirs and not into Soviet official propaganda to find the answers. Our propaganda always sucked

So I'm not picking on him per se... just getting the subject out in the open.

aztec · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2003, 09:35:52 PM »

Thx BGB, no better validation could be bought.

Boroda · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2003, 10:35:01 AM »

MT, it's surprising and strange for me that such an educated and intelligent person as I know you are simply repeats propaganda slogans. "Evil Soviet barbarians starved poor West Berlin just to watch them suffer and have fun" - the standard Western idea of Soviet people as bug-eyed monsters who eat little children alive.

Here is what I posted in the "Marshall plan" thread:

West was so desperate to separate their occupation zones that they stopped taking the "occupational marks" currency, issued both by USSR and Western "allies". It was a deliberate hostile act. Did they expect the West Berlin, a part of their occupational zones to be fed by USSR? No. They did a nice propaganda job with airlift, and showed how "evil" are that hordes of asian bolsheviks who's only desire was to be left alone.

Then Octavius asked:

How would anyone see refusal of a certain temporary currency as a hostile move? (<- serious question)

Miko2d answers, and gives a link:

http://www.usafe.af.mil/berlin/quickfax.htm

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Jun 48
As a first step toward a West German government, the Western powers announced a currency reform, effective 20 June. To keep the old currency from entering their zone, where it was still valid, the Soviets banned all travel to and from the eastern zone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine the currency bacomes worthless paper in the western zone and can only be used in the eastern zone. All the currency would flow to the east (which was only 1/4 of the Germany) to buy anything and everything, cause terrible inflation and leave the population with worthless paper.

I want to add that Soviet economics was in a horrible condition after the war. All European USSR was lireraly in ashes and ruins. Feeding former "allies" was the last thing in Soviet plans.

Soviets were pragmatic. Western "allies" left no choice for them: economical collapse or propaganda campaign picturing them in traditional way.

midnight Target · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2003, 10:58:26 AM »

Thanks for the compliment.

So in the spirit of altruism the Soviet Union halted all traffic in or out of 1/2 of one of the largest cities in Europe so that all those evil West Berliners wouldn't dump all thier worthless script on the East......

or

Was the blockade and subsequent wall of death the only way the Soviets could possibly hope to maintain control over 1/2 of Germany? Because even though your script story is based on fact, it is just the surface of a much larger reality. If the Soviets had allowed the new Western script to be used freely, the Eastern economy would have migrated to a capitalist system and Soviet control would have failed.

There is also this little tidbit...

Quote

In the early hours of June 24, 1948 by order of Joseph Stalin Russia halted all traffic into and out of the Russian sector of Berlin at Marienborn, which was the russian checkpoint located nearly one hundred miles from the city of Berlin. Stalin also cut off all electricity to the city of Berlin claiming "Technical Difficulties".

Otto · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2003, 11:08:33 AM »

Did the Russian's blockade Berlin again?? I guess the Jackson thing pushed it off the front page. Wow, things are happening fast.

Boroda · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2003, 01:51:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Thanks for the compliment.

So in the spirit of altruism the Soviet Union halted all traffic in or out of 1/2 of one of the largest cities in Europe so that all those evil West Berliners wouldn't dump all thier worthless script on the East......

We have probably different understanding of "altruism". It's hard to accuse Stalin of being "altruistic", he was probaby the last pragmatic in our "party and government".

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target

Was the blockade and subsequent wall of death the only way the Soviets could possibly hope to maintain control over 1/2 of Germany? Because even though your script story is based on fact, it is just the surface of a much larger reality. If the Soviets had allowed the new Western script to be used freely, the Eastern economy would have migrated to a capitalist system and Soviet control would have failed.

There is also this little tidbit...

In the early hours of June 24, 1948 by order of Joseph Stalin Russia halted all traffic into and out of the Russian sector of Berlin at Marienborn, which was the russian checkpoint located nearly one hundred miles from the city of Berlin. Stalin also cut off all electricity to the city of Berlin claiming "Technical Difficulties".

Was it the only way or not - it was our problem, and it was solved. As for elictricity - you waned to separate your occupation zone so bad that you should have thought of how to provide life-support for poor Western Berliners. Strange - I have to teach you basic capitalist relationship. Were there any attempts to buy elictricity for hard currency, not that occupational marks? See, your "source" doesn't mention it at all.

Again: most of the Soviet "crimes" were nothing more then an answer to Western politics. Fortunately this actions didn't lead to another war, like they did in Korea.

miko2d · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2003, 02:22:01 PM »

It's always entertaining to observe how american communists (whether enrolled into Republican or Democrat party) are trying to persuade foreign communists that communism is bad.

Especially when they cite all the communist methods USA used to prove that the free market is superior to command-style society.

miko

AKIron · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2003, 03:27:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
It's always entertaining to observe how american communists (whether enrolled into Republican or Democrat party) are trying to persuade foreign communists that communism is bad.

Especially when they cite all the communist methods USA used to prove that the free market is superior to command-style society.

miko

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

--Inigo

wklink · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2003, 11:17:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

--Inigo

That's....

inconceivable.

(badum bum)