about JFK assacination

[lord dolf vader]

downangle 6.2 seconds moving target headsized. carcano with military surplus ammo.


benched the rifle is not that accurate. get over it laz sorry.


cite
http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr795-fbifib.html

[Hortlund]

I dunno, Ive been in the army one way or another since I was 15, and I have used bolt-action rifles alot both in the military and as a civilian. And if you can find me a guy who puts three rounds in a 1/2 moving target at 100+ meters under six seconds with a bolt-action rifle and scope, I will be very impressed. Personally I dont think anyone can do that. Marine or not. Heck I'd be hard pressed to hit a stationary elephant at 100 meters under those conditions, and I consider myself a good shot (heh, dont we all eh ).

*shrug* I could be wrong of cource, but in my opinion, that simple fact is the biggest hole in the lone-gunman theory.

[thrila]

I just saw a TV prog about it....very interesting.  One of oswalds score card in the marines for rapid fire marksmenship @ 200yrds had a score of 48 and flipped the page and had a score of 49 outta 50...so i wouldn't call him a bad shot.  The shots he fired as others above have said was in 8 secs....not 6, the range was 80yrds too.


Maybe i'm a tad boring but i don't believe in that conspiracy theory crap.  Probably cause there isn't any....

[SOB]

Wait...is he still dead?!

[Pooh21]

First time I ever fired a large rifle was my mauser K98, with stock sights. I filled a tuna can rapid fire with 3 holes out of 4 shots at 25 meters 1st shot was 1 in too low. I was never in the military,nor trained to shoot more then my dad showing me how it works when I was a kid.

edit: oops meant 25 meters

[meddog]

Did any one see the history channel show featuring Oswald's girl friend and the wife of a mortician who left for 2 days, returned and took is family on a multi day road trip to only returned home after seeing Oswald assasinated on TV by Jack Ruby?  stating every thing is ok now. Also on this show there were several witnesses and logbook entries discribing a bullet hole in the windshield that showed that a bullet had passed through the windshield from the front. one witness was the manager at the Ford Motor Company who witnessed the replacement and destruction of the windshield that was ordered by the Secret Service.  The bullet hole in the windshield had been mentioned on 2 other shows by different people.  This show discribes coverups by 3 departments of the Federal government, the FBI, CIA and the Secret Service.  The shooters were probably maffia hit men.  The only person who was high enough and had enough power to control all 3 departments was Lyndon Johnson.  The assasination was a covert operation between the CIA, Maffia, Corrupt Bussiness men and     Government officials.  I also find it interesting that the assasination was in Texas, Johnson's home state.  Oswald was involved in the assasination to some degree was the scape goat and murdered to prevent him from talking

[yowser]

"...And if you can find me a guy who puts three rounds in a 1/2 moving target at 100+ meters under six seconds with a bolt-action rifle and scope, I will be very impressed......that simple fact is the biggest hole in the lone-gunman theory.'


Well, you only got the distance, time and the number of hits wrong...all in one sentence.  Other then that you seem to have all the "simple facts" down fine.  

I don't think it's accidental that most conspiracy proponents don't even know the most basic facts, including the distance of the shots, the timing of the shots, angle\trajectory of shots, entry and exit wounds, etc.  Most of their information seems to come second or thirdhand and they probably couldn't even tell you the original source.

If I wanted to prove a conspiracy, I'd forget about proving there was more then one shooter and focus on who Oswald was "working for".  Plenty of room for speculation there and the facts won't get in the way as easily.

yowser

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Originally posted by straffo
"about JFK assacination"

Je sais pas qui a tué JFK, mais moi je sais que tu viens de tuer ton prof. d'anglais

[mrblack]

And the worste part of all this is.
I wonder if his kids ever saw the zapruder film?

Very sad the grew up with out there Father.
Can you imagine having to look up to uncle Teddy:(

[Batz]

Originally posted by meddog
Did any one see the history channel show featuring Oswald's girl friend and the wife of a mortician who left for 2 days, returned and took is family on a multi day road trip to only returned home after seeing Oswald assasinated on TV by Jack Ruby?  stating every thing is ok now. Also on this show there were several witnesses and logbook entries discribing a bullet hole in the windshield that showed that a bullet had passed through the windshield from the front. one witness was the manager at the Ford Motor Company who witnessed the replacement and destruction of the windshield that was ordered by the Secret Service.  The bullet hole in the windshield had been mentioned on 2 other shows by different people.  This show discribes coverups by 3 departments of the Federal government, the FBI, CIA and the Secret Service.  The shooters were probably maffia hit men.  The only person who was high enough and had enough power to control all 3 departments was Lyndon Johnson.  The assasination was a covert operation between the CIA, Maffia, Corrupt Bussiness men and     Government officials.  I also find it interesting that the assasination was in Texas, Johnson's home state.  Oswald was involved in the assasination to some degree was the scape goat and murdered to prevent him from talking

You are simply regugitating back the same 'ole conspiracy crap you have been spoon fed.

btw the reason it happened in Dallas, Texas is because that's where Oswald was...

Best thing for you to do is not watch the history channel because 99% is total bs sensationalism to attract viewers. There is your "conspiracy".

Steve it was 8 sec and its not like he fired a tight group, 1 shot missed, 1 shot hit his neck and the 3rd killed him. Remember all the bs about the "skillz" of the DC snipers?

[Golfer]

Firing on moving targets...

was with a Belgian-Browning Auto-5 two deer seasons ago.  Standing on a drive as the last stander in line, 4 deer were gradually accelerated down the line as they were repeatedly missed by 3 hunters spaced 100 yards down the line.

75 yards on the run 2 rounds into a doe and a 3rd shot into the decent 10 point behind her.  Upon examination of the deer I put  both rounds into the doe less than 3 inches apart which did a number on both lungs and heart, and the placement of the shot on the buck again got both lungs and heart.  The shots were fired by whats been described me as 'rapid fire' though I didn't pay close attention to how quick they were.  I'd have to say all 3 rounds were fired in under 4-5 seconds (I've been known to put 3 hits into a coyote in under 2 seconds...i hate those little bastards).  This is with a semi automatic shotgun with limited recoil and iron sights.  I had the advantage of seeing both deer coming through open woods about 50 yards prior to when I fired, and hearing them from a greater distance.

I highly doubt that the shots could be made using anything higher than a 4x scope setting, tunnel vision at that range is too tight for a moving target the size of a man while cycling a bolt action rifle with quite a kick, in my non-expert opinion.  I couldn't make the shot and I like to consider myself a very skilled marksman.  If I can shoot a high score in Bianche Cup style shooting with a stock 9mm the I'd like to think I'd be able to come close to making the shots.  Time sacrifices the accuracy, and to make the 3 shots accurately (not at all an impossible task) within the allowed timeframe (8-10 seconds) is certainly a task that few if any shooters could accomplish no matter their credentials and training.

[Batz]

Here we go again... Where do you get "3 shots accurately"? He missed the first 1. The second one hit his neck, the 3rd hit his head.

Do you know what his aim point was? If not how can you claim anything about accurracy?

The Frontline show ran a real time, real scale cgi from serveral angles including from the shooters scope.

Yowser is right

If I wanted to prove a conspiracy, I'd forget about proving there was more then one shooter and focus on who Oswald was "working for". Plenty of room for speculation there and the facts won't get in the way as easily.

Even so there's no evidence he was "working" for anyone. He had an opportunity and motive. He did it.

[lazs2]

ok... he didn't make 3 head shots and it wasn't at 200 yards and he had 8 seconds to do it in and he did it from a bench rest with a 4 X scope... the car was not moving across him it was moving away slowly and at a predictable speed and not moving up and down.

get over it LDF... the shots were easily possible.

I wanna hear about his 38 agian tho... that was kinda amussing.

So these conspirators are so smart and cool that no one has been able to catch em all these years yet they leave pristene bullets lying around.... shoot through a windshield.... follow oswald around and then shoot a cop with the wron calibre gun and then go on an undetected murder spree for 20 years to shut everyone up.

the latter is also possible but....  

lazs

[lazs2]

I guess what we have is that from a benchrest at a target moving away at say... and average of 100 yards... he fired three shots in 8 seconds and had a group that was about 10" or larger (don't know how far he missed the first shot by)

lazs

[Batz]

Mr. MYERS : A lot of the witnesses first said that he was coming west and then he was seen walking east as Tippit pulled to the curb. I think what may have happened is Oswald truly was walking west, saw the police car approaching, did a quick about-face, now is walking east. This would be something that Tippit would spot and possibly cause enough suspicion to pull over.

The killer gets to about this position on the sidewalk and Tippit's patrol car pulls to the curb and either calls him over to the curb or the man comes over by himself and leans through the window and talks to Tippit through the vent window for 10 or 20 seconds -- very short. And Tippit gets out of the patrol car and as he does, the man steps over to the front of the hood here, and as Tippit gets opposite him, he pulls a gun from under the jacket, fires three shots across the hood, knocking Tippit to the pavement. Then the man starts to leave, hesitates at the back of the car, walks around behind the car, comes up to the front of the car, stands over to Tippit and shoots him in the head.

Mr., TATUM : He then looked around, surveyed the situation and started a slow run toward my direction. I put my car in gear and drove forward and watched him through the rearview mirror. I saw him very clearly and realized that there was one thing that made him stand out and that was his mouth that curled up. I couldn't mistake that.

INTERVIEWER : Kind of a -- kind of a smile?

Mr. TATUM : Yes. Uh-huh. Kind of a smile. And I was within 10, 15 feet of that individual and it was Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. MYERS : After the shooting, police found shells at the scene. They went on the radio and said they were .38 automatics. Later Oswald's arrested with a revolver that fires .38 specials, a shell that's clearly about a quarter inch longer. Besides, they're clearly stamped on the bottom. One says, ".38 special," one says, ".38 automatic."

NARRATOR : Automatic shells would mean Oswald was not there and that the evidence could have been planted.

INTERVIEWER : Did you actually pick up the shells yourself?

Mr. HILL : Yeah, I got a mark in them. I put a mark in them.

INTERVIEWER : But you still mistook the kind of shell it was?

Mr. HILL : Yes, I did. In all the excitement that was going on then, you just looked to see if it was a .38. And if he'd been using an automatic, they could have been ejected. Nobody at this point had told the first officer to arrive that Oswald had stopped, deliberately kicked out shells from a .38 revolver before he left that scene.

NARRATOR : Later, the FBI crime lab found that Tippit was killed by bullets fired from a gun with a bored-out barrel, a barrel just like Oswald's .38. Ballistics tests on bored-out guns can never be completely conclusive. However, marks on the cartridges allegedly recovered at the scene did match the hammer on Oswald's .38 revolver.