Author Topic: 2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+  (Read 1126 times)

Offline capt. apathy

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2003, 01:33:32 PM »
while his generalisation of all cops wasn't fair, you can't really say this is an isolated situation.

so while you can't say all cops are bad,  this incedent says alot about the cops in that area.  even the ones who didn't become involved in this.

they pulled up 5 examples in just the last year.  and it seemed to be an exceptable policy in the police force there.  

so exceptable in fact that the deaths made it past an inquiry even though they had several deaths occuring with in hours after these people had been in custody.

if 5 people had been found dead and I was the last to see them alive, and they had last been seen riding in my car,  I would think the police wouldn't have any problem conecting me to the deaths.  and what would you bet I'd get charged with something more than "wrongful imprisonment'.

I'd think in order for that to go unconnected the investigators would have had to be trying very hard not to make that conection.

it also seems not to be just this one town but SOP in much of western canada-
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Torque----- They've been doing that for decades out west.


for this to go on long enough to become common knowledge and still no one bothers to do anything about it until someone survives (and leaves them in the uncomfortable possition of not being able to turn their heads this time) would make you think just about every cop in the area would have had to be an acomplice on some level.

I guess my point is that while I'm sure not every cop in the area did this sort of thing they did allow their buddys to get away with things they'd never let slide if the rest of us done them.

it makes it pretty hard not to paint all cops with the same brush when this sort of thing is allowed to go on.  

bottom line is that you can blame most of the hatered people develope for cops on cops covering for other cops when they break the law.

Offline Maverick

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2003, 02:08:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy

it makes it pretty hard not to paint all cops with the same brush when this sort of thing is allowed to go on.  

 


This supposes that all police officers have some intrinsic knowledge of what happens in an isolated area of the world. Funny, I don't recall there being a requirement for ESP so that I would know what is happening thousands of miles away. Just how could I have done anything about it? Why am I to be painted with the same brush then?

This generalization is just an excuse to display a prejudice.
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Offline capt. apathy

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2003, 02:33:51 PM »
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This generalization is just an excuse to display a prejudice.


true, and eventually I outgrew the prejudices I had when I was younger.

and while I wouldn't expect cops in other parts of the world to know what cops in canada are doing, it seems obvious to me that those in that area should have seen it.  did even 1 bother to try and "blow the wistle" on this policy?  

and it's not as if this is a isolated event when it comes to cops (not the leaving people for dead.  the turning your head when fellow officers break the law, abuse people, or violate basic rights).

 as I've said I don't think that all cops do this sort of thing. I don't even belive most do.  but it does happen, and it happens on many levels.  from backing up a lie as to how evedence was obtained, to failure to stop a beating (as in the rodeney king case, where again reports of police abuse went unchecked until absolute proof was brought forth so a minimal reaction couldn't be avoided.

when cops turn their head to this sort of thing it becomes more and more accepted and new cops think it's "the thing to do"

I've seen departments where abuse has become acepted,  in my teen years I spent quite a bit of time in inedpendence missouri.  if your hair went down past your collar you could just about gaurentee a few cracked ribs in the elevator on your way up.

if I was a cop and thought I was getting a bad rap, I'd devote some time to exposing these abuses, and ending the careers of the people who are causing the problems.  but it would seem from thisside of the fence more effort is spent on covering up and looking away.

Offline Maverick

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2003, 02:53:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
true, and eventually I outgrew the prejudices I had when I was younger.

 


You continue to post as though you have not gotten over the prejudices. If you outgrew your youthful prejudices then why do you continue to paint all police with the same brush as you did here?

Please understand that I am not defending the officers who are  guilty of the alleged acts in the article. I do not think they deserve to be treated any differently than aby other criminal. I'd be happy to stand in line to show them the way to the prison. They have stained the reputation of all of us. I'm more likely to be contemptuous than you towards them. I also realize they do not represent all of police.

As to the other bodies in the article, they are investigating to determine if there is a relationship to the alleged situation in the article. You on the other hand have already convicted them for all acts.

Perhaps that is where we see it differently. I am content to let the investigation proceede and the trial to determine guilt. You have already moved on to sentencing in your posts and convicted the rest of us as well for not stopping it when we weren't there or even aware of it. See the point?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2003, 03:01:08 PM by Maverick »
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Offline capt. apathy

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2003, 03:42:12 PM »
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If you outgrew your youthful prejudices then why do you continue to paint all police with the same brush as you did here?


where do I do that?
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as I've said I don't think that all cops do this sort of thing. I don't even belive most do.


I've even pointed out to others that it's not reasonable to blame most cops (if you read my responce to lizzard3) for the action of a few.

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As to the other bodies in the article, they are investigating to determine if there is a relationship to the alleged situation in the article.


no, actually the deaths where already investigated and been  found inconclusive.
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The inquests into the deaths of Naistus and Wegner found that the circumstances were “inconclusive.” The report on Wegner said that he was found in a field and the cause of death was hypothermia from prolonged exposure, “by what means: undetermined.”


now, as a cop,
if several people had turned up dead from exposure, dressed in a condition that they couldn't have walked to where they where and survived to get there, had no vehicles around to have taken them there, and where all last seen alive with me in my car, after being a pain in the prettythang for me at work,
how hard of a time would you have making a conection?  I bet the case would not be at all inconclusive.

do you really think others on the force up there didn't, either by comision or omision, cover for these guys?

Offline Lizard3

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2003, 03:44:53 PM »
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Originally posted by Maverick
Another stunning generalization about all police drawn from an isolated situation. :rolleyes: Funny I don't recall meeting you much less letting you determine how or what I think. :rolleyes:


OK, we've now met the ONE sterling knight in shining armor. Woopie!

My generalizations we're not drawn from this one incident. They we're drawn from observations made during my time on this earth.  Sure, there are good cops out there, I'm sure. In general I would say not though. Most do think they are above the law.  How many tickets have you gotten out of Maverick? Are you the one cop who doesn't automatically flip out the badge when he gets pulled over?

Here's another generalization. Cops are by and large just high school jocks who were to stupid to go to college and get a certificate to teach PE, much less get a real job and work for a living. Cops are what you get when you put stupid people in positions of power. Rampant abuse.

Some abuses are minor, but others are glaring. Most cops are rude. Some are brutal. Some cops are criminals on the other side of the badge.

I assume your saying that since your a good cop, most are? Or are you?

Offline Vulcan

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2003, 08:06:27 PM »
Lizard with an attitude like that its no wonder you have a hard time with cops.

Out of curiosity what do you do for a living?

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2003, 09:05:07 PM »
lizard, FYI college is now a common requirement for the job. A particular major is not necessarily required nor is a 4 year degree required. In my department you must have at least 2 years to be considered, period.

Yes I do say that most cops are pretty damn good. I would wager that I have met far more than you have and have a far better grasp of the situation. The real crying shame is that the pool to draw on for new officers is the same gene pool that you came from. It means that someone with an attitude like yours has to be weeded out but nothing is perfect.

Frankly I find you ignorance and extreme prejudice to be more than a bit over the top. You really should grow up someday.



apathy, read the article. The investigation is checking to see IF there is a connection. Again with a blinding leap of intuition you have made the connection already and are assured that the bodies are all related to the same situation. Wait for the investigation to be concluded. If they are related you may dance with glee all you want. :rolleyes:

As to why I feel you have branded all cops the same,. read your own posts. I have already quoted you once on it.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2003, 09:09:11 PM by Maverick »
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Offline Lizard3

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2003, 09:14:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Lizard with an attitude like that its no wonder you have a hard time with cops.

Out of curiosity what do you do for a living?


Who says I have a hard time with cops? I'm not stupid.

What does what I do for a living have to do with this discussion?

Offline Lizard3

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2003, 09:43:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
lizard, FYI college is now a common requirement for the job. A particular major is not necessarily required nor is a 4 year degree required. In my department you must have at least 2 years to be considered, period.

Yes I do say that most cops are pretty damn good. I would wager that I have met far more than you have and have a far better grasp of the situation. The real crying shame is that the pool to draw on for new officers is the same gene pool that you came from. It means that someone with an attitude like yours has to be weeded out but nothing is perfect.

Frankly I find you ignorance and extreme prejudice to be more than a bit over the top. You really should grow up someday.



apathy, read the article. The investigation is checking to see IF there is a connection. Again with a blinding leap of intuition you have made the connection already and are assured that the bodies are all related to the same situation. Wait for the investigation to be concluded. If they are related you may dance with glee all you want. :rolleyes:

As to why I feel you have branded all cops the same,. read your own posts. I have already quoted you once on it.


College requirement of at least 2 years is common? Common in your dept., but, are you generalizing? Thats probably not common. No degree is required, just 2 years of attendance? Grades? Just show up for 2 years, well, that weeds out allot.

So, according to you, most cops are good. Good what? Good cops? And that means what? Arresting perps? Or are you saying they're good people? If they are good people, do they consider civi's people, or just the fraternal order people people? Do they treat people with respect? Obey all laws as if upholding the law was there job? Do they as well as you feel that laws are those thing with which they use to keep the "bad people" down? Or is the law a sacred trust that they're privledged to uphold? You know these cops so well, answer some of those questions about your co-workers and yourself. Did you answer the question about tickets? I musta missed it. Its not an evil thing to get out of a ticket, but it is indicitive of the attidtude that permeates your profession.

OK, you need to explain this a bit further.

"The real crying shame is that the pool to draw on for new officers is the same gene pool that you came from. It means that someone with an attitude like yours has to be weeded out but nothing is perfect."

What do you mean by "weeded out"? Capped? Man, I could take that as a threat, but since I KNOW you didn't mean that, I'll just let it slide(unlike a cop huh?) and think you mean that if people like me applied for cop jobs we should not be accepted. Huh, thats what you meant. Of course thats pretty stupid as no one(most people) with an attitude like mine would never even entertain the thought of being a cop. You knew that didn't ya? Which brings us back to...OH, it WAS a threat.

So, now we've established what kinda cop a "good" cop is, what woulda "bad" cop have done? Find some nefarious means to track me down and cap me for even thinking cops suck.

Whats funny is, my attitude and thinking isn't over the top as you say. Its relatively common. There are many who go ALLOT further than I do with their views.  I'm all growed up.

I didn't just get where I'm at from making stuff up. I like most people form there views from experience and observation of the world around them. To discount my views as some bad genetics gone amuck is to bury your head in the sand and wish a prefect world with a perfect department.

Go suck a jelly doughnut.

Offline Maverick

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2003, 10:08:58 PM »
lizard, weeded out as in not allowed to be a police officer. You really should seek professional help.
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Offline Lizard3

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2003, 01:24:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
lizard, weeded out as in not allowed to be a police officer. You really should seek professional help.


Guess you can't answer any of those questions honestly so you choose not to. That says alot.

Mayhaps you should do some soul searching. A professional could help you with that.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2003, 01:26:57 AM by Lizard3 »

Offline loser

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2003, 08:29:15 AM »
There is something missing in this story.  I have been following this case pretty much since the beginning.  These two cops were scapegoats. Nothing more.

These drop offs were darn near unwritten procedure for years in Saskatoon and other municipalities in the Province.  If they wanted to punish those responsible they should have done so at the top and worked their way down.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2003, 08:45:24 AM »
My beef with police men is as soon as they get their uniform on they stop being humans.
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Offline gofaster

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2 canadian cops get 8 months for 1 attempted murder+
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2003, 09:01:37 AM »
So who here has learned an important lesson about getting drunk, standing outside, and shouting obscenities late at night?