Author Topic: Big Brother (Read 799 times)

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:50:23 AM »

I have to admit I like this technique better than the Clinton/Reno technique of roasting them alive or machine gunning their wives and children.

OIO · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:03:26 PM »

Mane, every and all governments keep intel on their own citizens. dem. govs just do a much better job at doing it without people noticing.

Personally, it doesnt bother me in the least. If I was to be one of those being investigated, theres ZILCH i could do about it. What can you do against a gov anyway? Pick up a big cardboard banner and waste a day of your life outside some building screaming? Give thanks to this 'right to bear arms' crapola? Wake up call, a militia is useless against a modern military. Its not armed citizens that keep the tyrants out, its those in the military that dont support them INTO power.

In any case, if the fbi or cia or whatever wanted to keep tabs on you, they will. whether you think its right or constitutional or not. Everything goes down the toilet in 'national security' issues. you have your rights as long as the gov. decides you can have them.

its the nature of the beast, dont try to fight it, just dont get bitten

gofaster · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:19:38 PM »

What's this plastic cylinder lodged under the epidermal layer of my neck?

Shamus · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:04:12 PM »

"Sure, any large group where assault, vandalism, and destruction of property (public and private) were the rule, not the exception."

So do we agree that if there is no history of these actions or no history of the group at all that government surveillance should not be allowed?

shamus

OIO · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:28:23 PM »

Matter of fact, just look at what has been happening in the past few years in the internet.

Gov. decides they can 'search' your computer's connection to 'sniff' out if you are downloading illegal stuff (porn, movies, etc).

Is it big brother? Hrmm..well, yeah..sort of... youre not supposed to be doing that stuff anyway right? (nevermind its the gov. that tells you not to..laws...). You all know the first thing you sacrifice to live in a society with laws and yes, even a constitution, is a great number of your 'freedoms' (im free to download any movie i want to no? hehe).

In any case, if you think all this is bad, you'd better read up on how companies share your information. Your credit status, age, criminal records, school records, medical records... heck, the federal goverment dont need to have someone tailing you, they can just get that information from your Credit card company, your HMO, your employer, the tax records, etc etc etc.

*bite*

"So do we agree that if there is no history of these actions or no history of the group at all that government surveillance should not be allowed?"

Morally... I agree. Realistically... the fbi/cia wont mount surveillance on Granny's weekly Cooking club meetings..but they just might do it on the Civil Engineers who Love Explosives club...even though one of the grannies could be the antichrist teaching impressionable 90 year olds how to make plastic boom from fruitcake icing if you know what i mean.

Shamus · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:04:26 PM »

Morally... I agree. Realistically... the fbi/cia wont mount surveillance on Granny's weekly Cooking club meetings..but they just might do it on the Civil Engineers who Love Explosives club...even though one of the grannies could be the antichrist teaching impressionable 90 year olds how to make plastic boom from fruitcake icing if you know what i mean. [/B][/QUOTE]

You are probably right, most Grannies in the quilt club more than likley dont have anything to worry about, but I sure dont want to have to rely on if someone in the" fbi/cia" feel's like watching them.

What bothers me is we seem to be going from "probable cause to possible cause" as a reason for government action...read your history, legal limits must be placed on the powers of government to act against the citizens if freedom is the goal, it seems that that is secondary right now tho.

shamus

ps: wasnt that long ago that the CIA was not leagaly allowed to operate inside the Country.

OIO · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:59:54 PM »

Yeah, but like i said, if they want to do it, they will. And you will not know about it.

"What bothers me is we seem to be going from "probable cause to possible cause" as a reason for government action..."

and yet, when the dung hits the fan, gov. action is harshly criticized for not taking 'enough' action. Negative feedback loop.

"read your history, legal limits must be placed on the powers of government to act against the citizens if freedom is the goal, it seems that that is secondary right now tho."

free and unsafe, mostly free and mostle safe, or not so free but safe.... choose one.

The ironic thing is, legal limits to be placed on the powers of goverment to act against citizens.... but who will place them? the gov? Hah! Politics is a self serving reality. This 'right to bear arms' thing is a good example. How many states DONT allow you to? Isnt that acting against the citizens by ignoring legalities set forth by the gov. itself? Dont fool yerself, when the need is there, they will do it, whether people like it or not, whether they think its legal or not. The gov is the law.

Manedew · « **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2003, 07:28:56 PM »

Just because your cynical doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop to sobs..... the laws are in place to TRY .. keyword TRY... to keep the govement in check .....

but you just think we should roll over and say .. aww they have all the guns and power ... better just let them push us around .... whatever man.....

and no Ididn't say the Gov' slacked letting 911 happend .. if anyone did it was airport secuirty or the CIA ....

and what does the CIA , Al' Queda, and air port sercuirty have to do with this ...... what do terriorists have to do with this, nothing, nada, zilch ... no histroy ... none, not here.
(btw CIA is resposible for operations outside the US, not inside, ike the FBI)

And why do I care.... because the Aholes are actully BRAGGING about it... they are proud to be spying on thier fellow citizens.... they are pround to be searching without warrents ..... hidden courts...... hidden trials ... this BS .. what else will we see in years to come .... and you just say whatever .... ya whatever... maybe I'll just move north

Martlet · « **Reply #23 on:** November 24, 2003, 07:38:13 PM »

They're proud to be taking steps to prevent idiot protesters from breaking store windows. I would be too.

OIO · « **Reply #24 on:** November 24, 2003, 08:45:37 PM »

dangit mane, shut up. im on a roll here

Shamus · « **Reply #25 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:03:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by OIO
[

free and unsafe, mostly free and mostle safe, or not so free but safe.... choose one.

[/B]

HeHe, ya had me going, thought you were serious till I saw this

shamus

OIO · « **Reply #26 on:** November 25, 2003, 09:08:59 AM »

*throws shamus back into the water*

damn pufferfish!

Rude · « **Reply #27 on:** November 25, 2003, 10:36:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FUNKED1
I have to admit I like this technique better than the Clinton/Reno technique of roasting them alive or machine gunning their wives and children.

Yup...and ol Bill just used the IRS audit as well...what a guy.