Author Topic: Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)  (Read 3527 times)

Offline Duckwing6

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2003, 07:03:17 AM »
hmmmmm... too me it's perfectly normal not to

a) slamm throttle forward
b) don't go to full power until you have some airspeed

what you're experiencing is the effect of being below minimum control speed .. usually only used in twin engine airplanes it's also a factor in Very HIGH POWER single engine aircraft, where you have too much torque to counter with a rudder not effective enough at low speeds.


I have flown an AN-2 well not quite a racer but still 1000horse power taildragger.. slam throttle and you'll be headed some other place than the end of the runway because you don't have enough rudder authority to keep the nose pointed the right way ... now consider this is a SLOW speed a/c now how about a 1500+ HP a/c with a tail abou 1/3 the size of the AN2...

Offline ergRTC

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2003, 07:30:45 AM »
I refuse to use advice like 'press x' to control a plane for take off.  period.


How lame is that?  No offense but this is a flight sim.  I thought autotakeoff was for newbies and people who cant afford joysticks.

Offline straffo

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2003, 07:54:31 AM »
Me think that Supafly used the wrong kind of  shock absorbers  for the spit :p


I remember his trouble counting prop blades :




I know you'll hate me supafly but I'm french ya know ;)

Offline Kweassa

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2003, 08:26:36 AM »
erg, I fully agree the solution is lame.

 Problem is, I can bet my left nut the current way of things will not stay as it is - not because people whine and fuss about it, but because there's something lame with it.

 Lame approach to a lame problem - simple as it is. Besides, not everybody sees this game as their flight simulation representation. People are here to enjoy it - which, they will not be able to do so, when they can't take off at all.

Offline ergRTC

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2003, 08:39:38 AM »
I do agree that either the spit is messed (I am sure it is the shock absorbers) or the other planes are too easy.  

I have a feeling it is going to be some where in between.  For all of the other planes I can mash the throttle at a dead stop and take off no problem.  That is not right, so I suspect they are using the spit 9 to test out more advanced models of the undercarraige and torque effects.  

Really the 109g10 should be the beast to take off with.

Offline Toad

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2003, 10:05:32 AM »
Erg, how many hours do you have in taildraggers?

There's some times that you have to do the old "rudder pedal ballet" but that's USUALLY when you've already screwed up. Like raising the tail in a crosswind before the rudder is fully effective.

There are a few aircraft that are real twitchy too.. but I've never seen any as twitchy as this Spit IX in the beta. Doesn't jibe with historical reports, either.

Then you go to the G10, a 109; those HAVE a reputation for being twitchy.. but this one is easy as pie.

So, I believe it's the modeling. And I DO have time in taildraggers.
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Offline ergRTC

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2003, 10:13:06 AM »
2000 hp tail draggers?

No time in real planes here.  From what I understand from my father and grandfather, and other peoples posts, the bigger the engine on these small planes the worse it gets.  Narrow undercarriage and small rudders dont help a whole lot either.  

I think we all agree something is tweaky in the spit, but I do not agree that the other planes or ah1 is the right way to go.  I think they should stiffen some parts of the plane and see what happens.

Last thing I want is dorky takeoff behavior like the current setup.  I like the real challenge.  Thats why i joined a carrier squad.  Nothing like worrying about landing after a long mission with a kill or two.  Carrier ops will get interesting again if the spits close to the way they are going to keep it.

Offline GuyNoir

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here's how i do it
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2003, 11:23:22 AM »
I've gotten to where I can take off just about every time in the spit by doing this (flaps help):

jam the throttle to 100%
give it nearly full right aileron
give it about 70% right rudder

as you start to go faster, back off on the aileron but make sure that you keep your rudder stable.  finally, push forward on the nose until you're rolling level then pull up when you're fast enough.

I think the secret is using that right aileron.  When I use it, I hardly get any oscillations at all and taking off is almost as easy as in ah1.  

I can't help you guys with landing though, since I haven't managed that yet.  :) The best I've done is flipping the spit over its nose onto its back.  I couldn't believe it when it happened and I was still there in my cockpit upside down.  Don't ever remember that happening in ah1....

Offline TweetyBird

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2003, 11:56:51 AM »
Well seeing as the auto takeoff even crashes the spit, I would bet its a bug. The alt -x trick works - just make sure you can clear the trees after taking off perpindicular to the runway :)

Offline zmeg

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2003, 12:16:25 PM »
Thanks detch01 your method was 100% succesful,  the key is knowing what the plane is going to do and applying rudder ahead of time, landing is a bit harder but I found the trick is to touchdown at about 120mph and apply brakes befor your tail drops. IMO the only thing that needs fixing on tha spit 9 is to disaable autopilot while the wheels are down.

Offline detch01

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2003, 12:32:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by zmeg
Thanks detch01 your method was 100% succesful,  the key is knowing what the plane is going to do and applying rudder ahead of time, landing is a bit harder but I found the trick is to touchdown at about 120mph and apply brakes befor your tail drops. IMO the only thing that needs fixing on tha spit 9 is to disaable autopilot while the wheels are down.


LOL You're welcome but the technique was laid out by Cobra412 all I did was quote it :).


Cheers,
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semper in excretio, solum profundum variat

Offline hitech

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2003, 12:34:40 PM »
It was just a bug. Whats acctuly was going on with the spits is a portion of the wing was draging the ground when it rolled.

HiTech

Offline ergRTC

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2003, 01:22:05 PM »
HEHE!  That is so funny.  I take it was the left side of the plane.

Offline Toad

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2003, 02:35:04 PM »
My father flew and instructed in WW2 also.

Ponder this thought: would the AAF or any Air Force approve an aircraft that was basically uncontrollable on takeoff roll? Knowing that their "target population" for potential pilots was a group of people who, in 1940, had little if any familiarity with hi-tech motorized machinery?

Would they design and accept aircraft that "did not have enough rudder"?

Obviously, no. They did design and accept some aircraft that required specific procedures to operate safely and correctly. For example, MANY of the fighters required that you did not jam in full power until you had enough airspeed to make the rudder effective. This, however, was a simple learned behavior, not some cosmic application of inhuman leet pilot skill.

I haven't flown the WW2 fighters, but I've got time in T-6 types and twitchy little S2B Pitts aircraft. Enough to know that if I follow procedure, things work they way they were designed. If I don't, I get to do the rudder pedal ballet. 2000 HP doesn't matter; technique does. You can get in trouble in a 200HP PT-19 if you don't follow correct procedure.

And THAT boils down to this basically: Get enough airspeed to make the rudder effective BEFORE you lift the tail and BEFORE you go to max power in the high-horsepower aircraft. Usually, something around 50 mph will do it, too, sometimes a bit more.

Lastly, consider this. If it was a difficult as you think, takeoff training losses would have been unacceptable. It was a skill to be mastered, yes. And hundreds of thousands (millions?) of farm boys with no previous flying experience were in combat with roughly 200-250 total hours of flying time (in the US... other countries gave far less training.)

So, Erg, I'll put you in the totally misinformed "Damn the realism! Give me difficulty instead!" group.


BTW, thanks HT. I figured it had to be something like that in the programming.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2003, 02:38:58 PM by Toad »
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Offline ergRTC

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Spit9 take-off(plus, a 100% successful take of method)
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2003, 03:09:47 PM »
I am not as far to the damned realism as you may hope.  I just dont agree with the ease of take off we see in the ah2 planes yet.  All of these planes, besides the spit9 9(before the fix) are jam the throttle and fly with no problems.  

Is this what you see as real?  Apparently not from your comments,

so, toad, I think i have to place you amongst the totally misinformed "you agree with me and dont realize it yet" group.