Author Topic: Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?  (Read 3182 times)

Offline lazs2

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2003, 02:25:30 PM »
I agree with sob... he should still be in jail or dead from leathal injection but nooo...

can't agree with curval..  if he is guilty... leathal injection...  that torture crap doesn't sit well with me.

if we don't have a law that allows drugs to be used to find the girl then I guess we just gotta let her die.   No way around it.   I would hope that incidents like this would highlight the need for such a law.
lazs

Offline miko2d

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2003, 03:05:40 PM »
capt. apathy: drug him, use the info to locate the girl, then throw out all the info you gathered as inadmissable in court.

 There is nothing in the Constitution that makes an illegally obtained evidence inadmissible in court and it is a rather recent invention of our judiciary.

 Yes, the Constitution makes it illegal to conduct unreasonable searches or torture, etc. but that only means that people who performed them have commited an offence and should be punished. It does not mean that evidence is invalid.

 Treating that evidence as invalid only helps criminals and never law-abiding citizens, beause an unreasobnable search of a non-criminal would not find anything anyway while an unreasonable search of a criminal would invalidate the evidence.


 On this particular case, the police is known to grab the first suspicious guy who is often innocent. Torture is a punishment and there cannot be punishment before conviction.

 miko

Offline mrblack

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2003, 05:39:25 PM »
The stunninghunk Is a product Of our courte system!
Appeals and paroles.
they Have known that there was an80 to90% chance he would be a repete offender.
So why In Gods name was he ever set free?

So in there lies the issue.

It Is stuff like this that makes me glad I have no kids.
Being a parent In these times must be hard.

Offline capt. apathy

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2003, 05:52:00 PM »
Quote
Treating that evidence as invalid only helps criminals and never law-abiding citizens, beause an unreasobnable search of a non-criminal would not find anything anyway while an unreasonable search of a criminal would invalidate the evidence.



it helps law abiding citsens by discouraging unlawful searches.  the fact is that cops are never charged for illeagal searches.  (at least I never hear of it happening)

so throwing out illegaly obtained evidence is the only way to discourage these violations.

idealy they would charge police when they do ilegal searches  and let them have the same incentive to follow the law that the rest of us have.  until then this is the only way we have to discourage it.

Offline JB73

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2003, 06:04:54 PM »
could he be convicted federally? (bringing a child kidnaped across state lines)?

if so federal law DOES have a death penalty... and overrides whatever state he's arrested in.


but yes drug, maim, injure, sterlize, castrate, smash fingers with a ball peen hammer, cut off ear with razor, dip his wee wee in a tank of starved pirannah's... whatever needed to save that girl's life.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline SOB

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2003, 06:28:20 PM »
Actually, if you look at Apathy's thoughs, for one, it sounds very little like a police state.  As far as I'm concerned though, he should already be dead so he doesn't deserve the rights afforded the average citizen.
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Offline Charon

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2003, 06:41:00 PM »
A bigger issue is letting these people back out in the first place. Studies indicate that hard core sexual predators are unlikely to ever be fully rehabilitated and perhaps require drastic measure beyond what would be typical for some other kind of assault. Apparently, some hack psychologist made a bad call on this dude, and some poor girl had to pay for his or her stupidity.

Charon

Offline Bodhi

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2003, 06:45:54 PM »
I feel really sorry for her parents, and for her, where ever she is...

:(
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Offline SOB

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2003, 06:52:24 PM »
Chemical interrogation is chemical interrogation no matter how you justify it. Forcing people to speak or do something without justice by the people is the very definition of a police state.

That's your opinion.  By throwing out any evidence gained while he is under the influence of a controlled substance introduced by the police, you preserve his rights while possibly saving an innocent victim.

Since you think he should already be dead I take it you consider rape a capital offence?

You would be correct in that assumption.  While I could see leniency on the first offense with some special circumstances, once he did it again he made it clear he's not fit to live among the rest of us.
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Offline SOB

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2003, 07:27:14 PM »
LOL, whatever.
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Offline Maverick

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2003, 07:50:52 PM »
This individual has already proven he is incapable of rehabilitation. There is no reason to maintain his existance at public cost as he has no chance to rejoin society as a "good citizen".

As to the constitution not prohibiting the use of evidence not found in accordance with a proper search, the document does not use that verbage. The supremes using their office and purpose of interpreting law for constitutionality have already determined it was the "intent" of the framers of the constitution to prohibit the use of "tainted" evidence. There is no reason to prohibit unwarranted or unreasonable searches and siezures if the  evidence is going to be allowed it in court anyhow. Fruits of a tainted search are not allowed in court. That is the main incentive to insure police use a proper search.

What constitutes a proper search is open at times to interpretation as a judge has the authority to render a search warrant. Cases involving exigency will allow a warrantless search in limited situations. A permissive search granted by the person responsible for the property to be searched do not require a warrant.

As to what the police can do in this case, they have to follow the rule of law lest they themselves be prosecuted for civil rights violations. Of course there is no recourse for the victim of this predator outside of a courtroom and she has to survive to seek it. :(

What we would like to see of course is the victim found alive and able to continue her life. She will always be haunted by this experiance if she is alive and competant.

As to the normal feelings of those who see this tragedy, yes they are not pleasant. But then again rape is not pleasant either and cannot be expunged or retracted. The victim will live with it for the rest of her life. Anyone who thinks this is not traumatic and just short of being murdered is living in a fantasy world.
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Offline JB73

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2003, 10:09:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Since you think he should already be dead I take it you consider rape a capital offence?
umm pretty much yes. no less than life in prison no parole at least.

the fact he has done this before and wont stop makes him a predator.. somone who cant be "fixed"

the real question i think alot fo the "let's not hurt him" crowd arent asking is:

what would you want done if it was your daughter?

would you really say:

Quote
Letting My Daughter die because I have to follow due process = An unfortunate but unavoidable part of a free society.
(yes i edited to reflect the thought process)

somone who says that IMHO is not a parent and probably shouldn't have children anyway.

oh well another lame thought by yours truly
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Torque

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2003, 10:20:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Where do you draw the line?


Certainly behind this guy.

Offline AKIron

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2003, 10:36:05 PM »
I think we need to hold those responsible for putting this guy back on the street criminally accountable, they deserve to do hard time. I betcha that if we started doing that parolees would get a bit a more scrutiny.

GScholz, free society doesn't mean free from responsibilty, quite the opposite.
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Offline Tumor

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Missing Girl in S. Dakota - Moral Dilema?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2003, 11:16:04 PM »
hmmm... long history of sexual crimes?  

Start at the toes and work your way up.  No screwing around, work at a speed in which all appendages would be severed in about 3 minutes.


I'm bettin he'd talk by toe 3.
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