Author Topic: Bush restores trade balance with China!  (Read 2745 times)

Offline Airhead

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2003, 05:15:39 PM »
Hey, it's GWB's policy, not mine. We now invade foreign nations based solely upon their form of Government. If we are truly trying to spread Democracy around the world then why did GWB grant China "most favored nation" trading status? You'd think at the very least he'd denounce their leadership and push for an economic boycott of em instead.

Offline Eagler

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2003, 05:18:06 PM »
Taiwan could force our hand

makes you wonder how many "get outa Iraq" lefties would be screaming for us to protect the island junk maker from the big bad land based one ...
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Offline Airhead

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2003, 05:18:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dune
Because if we're not going to trade with China because they're Commie, does that mean we've been doing the right thing in regards to Cuba all this time?



I don't know... do you think we're doing the right thing in Iraq?

Offline Martlet

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2003, 05:32:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
I don't know... do you think we're doing the right thing in Iraq?


I do.  I don't see what that has to do with China, Cuba, or the constitution either, though.

Offline vorticon

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2003, 08:15:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
vorticon: the elected party represents the people...therefore a bash to the party is a bash to the people...

 Few technical corrections. "the party" is not elected, a person is. And he does not represent "the people", just the majority. And does not really "represent" but serves.

 Not that that I would shy away from bashing "the people" when they deserve it but in this particular case your slander of us is totally undeserved.

 Do you really think that american people - especially the rebublican almost-half of them (communism=Empire of Evil types) who voted for rebublicans in 2000 would have preferred to support expansionist communist China against democratic capitalist Taiwan if asked then - or even now?

 Did chinese institute personal liberties? Allowed gun ownership? Private enterprise? Free Trrade? Abandoned practices of forced abotion? Allowed free speech? Stopped aresting and torturing political opponents? Selling prisoners for body parts? Allowed real elections?

 Do you think it is a treason for anyone, regardless of the party, not to vote for re-election of the president in his second-term - since he was obviously elected and thus must be the best choice?
 Is that a treason to campaign for a different candidate? To criticise the government? To remember what Founding Fathers said about watching one's own government lest it turn tyranical?
 Is it a treason to think at all?

 Many americans surely think so, if that process can be called "thinking", the traitors.

 miko

1. sorry...things are different here in canada...of course that 1 person represents the government (or the official opposition) wich represents the people...
2. wow...you pulled all that from a statement about how the government works...you take reading between the lines to a whole new level...how is it slander to point out that the government represents the majority of the population and therefore a bash to them is a bash to that majority...i never said or implied ANY of that...and if you think i did then i suggest you find a shrink

Offline Dowding

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2003, 03:33:46 AM »
The one thing about miko2d is he actually debates a point with coherent arguments.

The one thing about his detractors is that they can rarely do the same.
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Offline -dead-

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2003, 05:40:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
taiwan has nukes.
Not according to the FAS. And if they have, they apear not to be using them the way they're supposed to be - ie you have to test one to prove to the world you a) have nukes and b) they work. Most importantly, the whole point is to tell everyone you have them - otherwise they are not a deterrent, and therefore expensive & useless.

China probably doesn't need to bomb Taiwan to enforce the one China policy - they can make an independent Taiwan uncomfortable enough to rethink their independence using economic means. Eg: which country's trade would Corporation X value more if they could only choose one? China or Taiwan? To couch it in US terms: which would you rather be able to sell to/buy from? Rhode Island or the whole of the rest of the US?

That's not to say that China wouldn't use force. But it bears remembering so far the PRC have left Hong Kong alone - and indeed under the evil communist rule, HK has become much more democratic than it ever could have under the UK's colonial regime and has been voted the world's freest economy every year since they took over. Keeping Taiwan's fledgling democracy intact would therefore not be beyond the PRC's capabilities.

Although I suspect the PRC's party heads may take a dim view of all the ridiculous and embarrassing hand-to-hand combat that passes for debate in Taiwan's parliament. ;)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2003, 10:10:10 AM by -dead- »
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Offline miko2d

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2003, 09:12:53 AM »
vorticon: ...how is it slander to point out that the government represents the majority of the population...

 You implied that the president's action represents our opinion - meaning that the population in US desires to sell the free democratic republic of Taiwan to the communist China.

 That is slander on us, americans. Our government may be doing such atrocios things because we are dumb and uninformed and easily fooled but not because we want them to.

 I may have supported the return of "breakaway iraqi province" of Kuwait oppressed by the totalitarian religious monarchy to the secular socialist Iraq who had been our long-time ally in a war against religious fundamentalism in the Middle East. But selling a democracy to the communists? Have to draw a line somewhere.

Quote
Taiwan's democratically elected president, Chen Shui-bian, has been hinting that maybe his people should make a democratic choice about whether to unite with China or become independent. Beijing's Communist dictators have replied with bellicose threats to settle the matter by force, no matter the price. Yesterday President Bush essentially placed the United States on the side of the dictators who promise war, rather than the democrats whose threat is a ballot box.


 miko

Offline Martlet

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2003, 09:30:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
vorticon: ...how is it slander to point out that the government represents the majority of the population...

 You implied that the president's action represents our opinion - meaning that the population in US desires to sell the free democratic republic of Taiwan to the communist China.

 That is slander on us, americans. Our government may be doing such atrocios things because we are dumb and uninformed and easily fooled but not because we want them to.

 I may have supported the return of "breakaway iraqi province" of Kuwait oppressed by the totalitarian religious monarchy to the secular socialist Iraq who had been our long-time ally in a war against religious fundamentalism in the Middle East. But selling a democracy to the communists? Have to draw a line somewhere.



 miko


Thankfully, miko has sources on the inside to give him a clear point of view.  It's the rest of the country that's screwed up.

Or is it?

Offline Sixpence

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2003, 09:46:27 AM »
We own Taiwan?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline miko2d

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2003, 09:56:00 AM »
Sixpence: We own Taiwan?

 Reminds me of a russian proverb.

 Can you buy an honest man? No, but you can sell him.

 miko

Offline Sixpence

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2003, 09:59:38 AM »
Does this mean I can sell California?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline miko2d

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2003, 11:17:14 AM »
Sixpence: Does this mean I can sell California?

 I though it has already been sold to Vincente Fox.
 It's not the question of what you can sell but what you can steal first.
 You have to be a politician to sell out America to foreign governments and special domestic interests - because first you steal it from the rightfull owners.

 miko

Offline Charon

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2003, 11:17:22 AM »
I think it's funny that so many companies are putting so much effort into the slim opportunity to be future players in the vast and largely untapped market of China some day. "If we establish a presence now, we'll be set when..."

The potential is there, clearly, but if you talk to some of the people managing aspects of these joint ventures they'll tell you that it really seems to be a one way street for the most part. There is no idea when any kind of true open market will exist (certainly not in the near future), and the controls still keep the Chinese partner firmly in control (at least where petroleum is concerned). You've got to wonder if it's really worth the effort, and if we aren't just educating the Chinese to become fiercer economic competitors in the future at our expense.

Charon
« Last Edit: December 11, 2003, 11:20:20 AM by Charon »

Offline kappa

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Bush restores trade balance with China!
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2003, 11:53:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charon
I think it's funny that so many companies are putting so much effort into the slim opportunity to be future players in the vast and largely untapped market of China some day. "If we establish a presence now, we'll be set when..."  



Good point... When it does happen though, I'd bet that american enterprise in china will be worth little more than the avg. Chinesse all you can eat buffet here in america...

k
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