Author Topic: P51 flight model  (Read 1691 times)

Offline Raptor

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P51 flight model
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2003, 07:44:36 PM »
It was estimated it would take a million soldiers to invade japan. Those 2 bombs took as many japanese lives as it saved american lives, but in a shorter amount of time.

Offline Ecliptik

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P51 flight model
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2003, 10:34:25 PM »
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Japan was ready to surrender.


They were ready to fight to the bitter end, so the US gave them a bitter end.

Offline Reaper5

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P51 flight model
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2003, 01:32:23 AM »
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idiot, Spit 14 can outperform P51 in virtually every respect except range. And it entered service before P-51D.


sorry

Offline Toad

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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2003, 10:12:44 AM »
IIRC the Strategic Bombing Survey concluded that basically, they hit the wrong targets.

The most impact they had on the war was late when they went after transportation targets. IIRC, they decided that they should have been doing that all along, instead of going after factories that could be moved underground and such.

Of course, hindsight is always 20/20, so who knows for sure.
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Offline Midnight

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P51 flight model
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2003, 04:56:13 PM »
New P51 flight model is like easy mode.

It's almost like you have to force it into a spin and then.. if you can manage to spin it, it comes out of the spin without half a try.

The new model needs some work still, so don't get used to the P-51 flying like this for long.

Offline cpxxx

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P51 flight model
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2003, 05:11:01 AM »
It does sound like the flight model is a touch easy at the moment.  I read recently about a, I think Jug squadron that converted to the P51. On one of their first fully tanked up battle formation practically half the squadron lost control and spun. So the P51 didn't exactly have care free handling.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2003, 06:02:31 AM »
Are we supposed to look at Fm yet ?

Offline Midnight

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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2003, 06:56:55 AM »
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Originally posted by straffo
Are we supposed to look at Fm yet ?


Being that the beta is now playable online, I would say yes, we should be looking at the flight model.

Guessing by current (AH Classic) P-51 performance and the new "stall resistant" model in AH-II, I would say UFO aircraft like the N1K will be totally unbelievable.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2003, 07:54:27 AM »
I know this probably isn't the case but... does everyone have the stall limiter turned off? (Not that it would have anything to do with Zoom climbing)

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Offline Griego

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P51 flight model
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2003, 04:11:16 PM »
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Originally posted by Raptor01
Dont you think that role belongs to the B-29 with big man and little boy;)




  wasn't that Fat Man and Little Boy.

Offline lord dolf vader

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P51 flight model
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2003, 05:55:32 PM »
my problem with the 51 is that the vicious accelerated stall caused by the peculiar wing design of the 51 in hard pulls is non existant ( also when is the last time you saw one in a flat spin? as veteran pilots consistantly say was a very real danger when fully fueled, more so than most other aircraft. hell they had special orders not to fully fuel them for gods sake) but the thing is neutral as can be you can litteraly get almost sidways in one for a snap shot and it will occilate back to flight path with little or no e lost. ah1 and now 2 coupled with favorible decisions in every aspect of its modeling (compair to any lw plane) make it a beast it wasen't :(

compair to il2s 51 for to see what i mean. or air wars full reality.


but then again how many times has that one plane been redesigned? how many new cockpits?  they never said they are fair. or correct and this aint a sim. :(  this GAMES name should really be "p51 and the rest time allows". i.e. look at the glaring model errors posts on this board.

its a game and im thinking 51 is superman in their comic.( hispanos being kriptonite)

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2003, 09:07:33 PM »
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Originally posted by Griego
wasn't that Fat Man and Little Boy.



Shhh....he's on a roll



ack-ack
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Offline Raptor

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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2003, 11:01:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Griego
wasn't that Fat Man and Little Boy.

My mistake.

Offline moot

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P51 flight model
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2003, 03:22:09 AM »
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Originally posted by Midnight
Guessing by current (AH Classic) P-51 performance and the new "stall resistant" model in AH-II, I would say UFO aircraft like the N1K will be totally unbelievable.

all things being equal..

as a footnote, the 51D in the OP was yours truly.
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2003, 06:57:15 AM »
The feel of flight seems nice, especially the sensation of inertia and resistance to control inputs during dives.

 But I don't think the FM is finished in anyway yet.

 Try this - I'm sure many of us already know about it:

 Deliberately yank the stick back and hold it there - the feeling of impending stall, and the way planes enter it seems nice.. but the problem is, stalls don't develop any further than that. Planes refuse to start to spin, and you will see that in some planes like the P-51D, it just sort of "shakes" around with the nose pitch facing towards the earth. No spin at all.

 Let go of the stick, and control is immediately restored.

 ...

 On the other hand, in some other planes, I've felt the effect of AH1 style stalls - the dreaded, inverted flat spin(well, not exactly a spin.. since it doesn't spin at all.. just fall flat on its back).

 I've pushed a Spit9 up 90 degrees vertical - yes, the torque is there, and it's definately not so easy to hover upwards straight with guns blazing. But after reaching the stall point, the nose of the plane falls downwards, but, it doesn't do it completely!

 Like the exact same phenomenon as seen in AH1, the nose, the heaviest part of a WW2 plane where the engine is mounted, at the  point of vertical stall where speed is lost and lift is diminishing, drops down about half way towards the earth, and it then suddenly stops there.

 The plane, without spinning in any axis, just rocks back and forth, and falls straight down on its back.

 I'm no expert in flight nor an experienced pilot, but I seem to recall that this phenomenon seen in AH1, has been discussed over and over again, with many self described pilots pointing out that this phenomenon is strange, and unrealistic.

 Well, a part of me felt a grin, seeing a Spit9 facing the same kind of dangers what all other planes had to face before, but a part of me hoped that this wierd, inverted stall that made ideal hammer heads and immelmann maneuvers almost impossible in AH1, was gone in AH2 - unless the pilot somehowe deliberately forces his plane into weirdest of stalls.

 ....

 The Bf109G-10 is also weird - the increase in torque forces are interesting, and seeing that it rolls faster towards one side, and slower the other, was good. But the torque seems to be incredibly large - at speeds from 200mph and under, right roll input is almost negated by the torque force. Hence, even the control authority of auto trim, cannot compensate for it during take off. When going vertical, it is not just 'difficult' to keep the nose point upwards - it's impossible. It's not impossible because the plane is reaching stall speed, and the nose is dropping down - it's impossible because the plane rolls itself out of the vertical and the pilot cannot stop it even with maximum stick defelction. I can understand that happening when the plane reaches near stall speed, but at 150~200mph??

 ...

 Some stalls in AH1 were very good. I've stalled the P-51D and F4U-1, didn't recover from it fast enough, and let it develop into a spin. The resulting spin was incredible - the plane noses down spinning to oneside like crazy, and if you try to stop the spin, it stopped turning one way, and started to turn the other way - it was just like what I've read about fatal stalls that develop into spins, and some planes which are typically prone, to falling in those sort of spins.

 I hope they finish with the  FM of planes - at least, the ones made available for beta testing - soon. We all hope to get a glimpse of what it might be like.