Author Topic: P51 flight model (Read 1576 times)

Glasses · « **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2003, 09:18:36 AM »

I just find it strange that at best climb speed the 109G10 is almost uncontrolable you can't even use the auto climb feasture to keep the aircraft climbing it struggles to keep it wings level until it stalls and spins in.

Toad · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2003, 10:00:33 AM »

Rudder.

Wilbus · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2003, 12:48:08 PM »

Not sure what you mean with "rudder" toad, however, if you mean we should use rudder to counter torque that's wrong. Torque is countered by ailerons. Sideslip caused by prop wash pushing on the vert stab is countered with rudder.

mold · « **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:11:14 PM »

The direct torque effect should not be so pronounced at flying speeds. The moment arm of the prop is much smaller than that of the wing.

The P-factor (or whatever it's called that is caused by the spiral slipstream) is a yaw thing. Sure the yaw induces some roll, but not much.

Glasses · « **Reply #34 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:18:48 PM »

YOu need to apply full right rudder and aileron to keep the G10 in a climb attitude and then you lose all your aairspeed and fall as if you have a twin engine aircraft on VMC

Toad · « **Reply #35 on:** December 18, 2003, 01:45:54 PM »

I'll have to try it again, but climbing out in the G10 a version or two ago was no problem for me when handflown using rudder to counter the yaw.

Just like you do in an airplane.

I don't know ANYONE that uses aileron trim in a full power climb in a prop airplane to counter yaw. You use rudder.

Toad · « **Reply #36 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:19:48 PM »

Just tried it again.

I can do a manual takeoff by just holding a touch of right rudder, going full power and keeping the tail down until about 50 mph. Ease the stick forward at 50, add a touch more rudder as tail unsticks. Lift off about 120, add a bit more rudder. Around 150, add a touch more rudder, engage WEP.

Trim a bit nose down, let speed build to about 180 and climb out.

I find I can fly it "hands" off the stick at 180-200 after pitch trimming for climb and just using right rudder to stop the yaw. (And not all of the rudder by any means.)

Didn't touch the aileron trim and took my hand off the joystick after pitch trimming.

YMMV.

Glasses · « **Reply #37 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:47:47 PM »

As far as I understand it 270kmh that is th e109 climb speed is around 160mph in AHII you do need to use fulll right aileron and quite a bit of rudder to maintain climb attitude or you will just force and inverted attitude. I know the 109G10 had quite a bit of torque compared to it's earlier variants but it's getting rediculous

Toad · « **Reply #38 on:** December 19, 2003, 01:15:37 AM »

Your talking about the G10 here? Full aileron? I didn't use ANY; took my hand off the stick.

Glasses · « **Reply #39 on:** December 19, 2003, 07:37:47 PM »

Well yeah I'd try to film it for you so you can see what I'm saying . almost full right aileron deflection and quite a bit of rudder which is normal to maintain a climb attitude and not go inverted in the AHII G10

JAWS2003 · « **Reply #40 on:** December 24, 2003, 11:45:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Glasses
Well yeah I'd try to film it for you so you can see what I'm saying . almost full right aileron deflection and quite a bit of rudder which is normal to maintain a climb attitude and not go inverted in the AHII G10

True. How come only the g10 needs full aileron deflection to keep it flying?

The way it is now G10 is pretty much useless. Looks like they found a way to use it's power against it.

Kweassa · « **Reply #41 on:** December 24, 2003, 03:50:59 PM »

It's not useless, it's just incredibly cumbersome, and confusing sometimes.

The Griffon engined Spit14, in many ways comparable with the G-10 in engine power and performance, actually feels more gentle in torque than the Spit9.. so what gives?

Also, what bothers me is that I really can't force a vertical in a G-10 now.. maybe its my lack of skill, but when going vertical, once the speed drops under 200mph, there's no way to keep the nose up pointing towards the sky... It's not because I'm stalling, it's because I can't stop the plane from rolling - even a full right deflection cannot stop the G-10 from rolling out of a vertial under 200 mph.. and that just seems weird.

But since I don't know anything about how planes really work, maybe there's some explanation to it.. (but then again, how come the other planes don't suffer so much from it? and how is it that a take-off in a 109, is more easier than in a Spit9 - in the fact that the torque is so strong that there's no need to 'balance' the plane carefully during the take-off roll?? .... and just giving right rudder and right aileron deflection so the two main gears remain firm against the ground until enough speed is caught, is enough to let the plane take off on its own..?)