Author Topic: Iraq, from invasion to date  (Read 4522 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2003, 07:34:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO

problem is rip.....its costing a whole lotta money.....and people are not blind to that fact.



When Saddam goes on trial, and the world sees the atrocities that he's committed, I want you to ask yourself one question: "Was it worth the cost of money to prevent yet more mass graves?"

Let your conscience speak for you at that time.

Offline Hortlund

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2003, 07:46:22 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Which mass-graves are from atrocities, and which are from the Iran-Iraq war? What was the nature of the atrocities? When were they committed and by whom?

The only mass-graves (edit: not from the war) in Iraq I've read about was a result of the 1991 Sunni uprising which was betrayed by the coalition.

Ever heard of a town called Halabja?

Offline Ripsnort

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2003, 07:48:05 AM »
Hortlund, don't feed the trolls, there will be plenty of crow coming up in the trial.

Offline Lance

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2003, 07:56:37 AM »
Pongo, cut Rip some slack.  He has had a gun pulled on him 34 times and only crapped himself twice.  Back when he was a stripper, a time when patriotism was out of fashion, he had the courage to adopt ‘Captain America’ as his stage name and wear a stars and stripes thong.  Even now, he heroically protects his kids from the dangers of the world by denying them access to mind-warping, violence-desensitizing influences like Sonic the Hedgehog while exposing them to good, wholesome entertainment like World War II warfare simulations.   I have no doubt that if given the chance Rip would take a bullet for a soldier and, if he lived, come here to tell us about it.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2003, 07:59:30 AM »
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Originally posted by Lance
Pongo, cut Rip some slack.  He has had a gun pulled on him 34 times and only crapped himself twice.  Back when he was a stripper, a time when patriotism was out of fashion, he had the courage to adopt ‘Captain America’ as his stage name and wear a stars and stripes thong.  Even now, he heroically protects his kids from the dangers of the world by denying them access to mind-warping, violence-desensitizing influences like Sonic the Hedgehog while exposing them to good, wholesome entertainment like World War II warfare simulations.   I have no doubt that if given the chance Rip would take a bullet for a soldier and, if he lived, come here to tell us about it.


:rofl

Offline SLO

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2003, 08:08:29 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes Rip, why don't you go and catch a bullet? Be a hero!


WTF does that have to do with the US military achievements in IRAQ......

Kids get to go to school.....

Sick people have medicines when there sick...

they got water to drink....

crops are growing....

so on and so forth....

I don't usually agree with right wing fanatics.....but this was a positive post.

Offline kappa

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2003, 08:12:06 AM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I definately disagree with you on this.  Military officers are not told what to say in most cases but told WHAT NOT TO SAY!  They are humans.  This one her is just telling his Marines some basic facts mixed with some political opinion.  I'm not saying all these facts are exactly true BUT the purpose of this letter is to increase moral...NOT to spread political disent


Being told 'what not to say' is being told what you can say.... right?? If one is limited to 'what they can say', they are limited in what they can say... If one is told, 'dont say this', they are being told what to say....

Pongo's reasoning could stand true....
- TWBYDHAS

Offline kappa

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2003, 08:13:13 AM »
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Hortlund, don't feed the trolls, there will be plenty of crow coming up in the trial.


So are you saying SH will bring WMDs with him to the trial??
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2003, 08:16:28 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, and I also know it became a battleground in the Iran-Iraq war where Kurdish separatists joined the Iranians. It is still a controversy whether it was the Iraqis or the Iranians who used chemical weapons against the town. The chemical used in that incident (I don't remember which) was primarily used by the Iranians in that war, the Iraqis mainly used a different chemical weapon.

Nice revisionist history. There is no more controversy over Halabja than there are over Auschwiz. Either you have stumbled over a horrible bad webpage in your google-attempts to find info on Halabja, or you get a solid position among the David Irving-crowd.

Never thought you'd sink this low in your attempts to discredit the americans.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2003, 08:31:52 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
Discredit them how?


"Which mass-graves are from atrocities, and which are from the Iran-Iraq war? What was the nature of the atrocities? When were they committed and by whom?

The only mass-graves (edit: not from the war) in Iraq I've read about was a result of the 1991 Sunni uprising which was betrayed by the coalition."

Implying, for some reason that Saddam is not responsible for certain atrocities against his own people.

Here is a tip. Exchange Saddam with Hitler, Iran-Iraq war with German-Soviet war, and atrocities with holocaust, and then maybe you can see what the hell you are saying.

Offline kappa

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2003, 08:37:14 AM »
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Here is a tip. Exchange Saddam with Hitler, Iran-Iraq war with German-Soviet war, and atrocities with holocaust, and then maybe you can see what the hell you are saying.


Wont fit.. Comparing Iran/Iraq war to the Jewish holocaust? There is a difference, last I heard, from folks carring guns to folks taking gas showers....

What mass graves though, really?? Give me 5 'atrocities' commited by SH?? How bout 3....... documented....

The guy is a loser but still, what atrocities?
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Hortlund

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2003, 08:55:12 AM »
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Originally posted by kappa
Wont fit.. Comparing Iran/Iraq war to the Jewish holocaust? There is a difference, last I heard, from folks carring guns to folks taking gas showers....

What mass graves though, really?? Give me 5 'atrocities' commited by SH?? How bout 3....... documented....

The guy is a loser but still, what atrocities?


Comparing the unarmed Kurdish civilians in Halabja to the unarmed jewish civilians during the Holocaust will though, its only the scale that is different.  

3 documented:

Halabja

Shiites around Basrah after 91-war

Kurds (2-4 000 villages reportedly were destroyed by Iraqi forces, up to 200 000 Kurds believed tortured, killed).

If you want more details than this, go ahead. These are the first three off the top of my head.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2003, 09:00:14 AM by Hortlund »

Offline Scootter

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Iraq, from invasion to date
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2003, 09:33:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by kappa
Wont fit.. Comparing Iran/Iraq war to the Jewish holocaust? There is a difference, last I heard, from folks carring guns to folks taking gas showers....

What mass graves though, really?? Give me 5 'atrocities' commited by SH?? How bout 3....... documented....

The guy is a loser but still, what atrocities?



Yea, your right the bodies found with blindfolds still on and shot in the back were armed with AK's and RPG's at the time.:rolleyes:

And it is not hard to tell the difference from a body killed 12 years ago as a solder and buried as say one killed 3 years ago by execution, jezzes watch CSI once.

You guys have so much hate, it is killing your credibility
« Last Edit: December 17, 2003, 09:40:09 AM by Scootter »

Offline Torque

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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2003, 09:36:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
When Saddam goes on trial, and the world sees the atrocities that he's committed, I want you to ask yourself one question: "Was it worth the cost of money to prevent yet more mass graves?"

Let your conscience speak for you at that time.


Typical Repub stance on arocities if you can't make a dollar from genocide use it for propoganda to justify an invasion, just leave out the ugly parts like your collaboration during the act.:aok

Hey it was good for the American economy right Rip :aok

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2003, 09:43:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Halabaja: A battleground, Kurdish rebels joined the Iranians in battle against Iraq. Still, chemical weapons banned by international law were used by both sides so this incident may be the best "card" to use against Hussein in a war crimes trial.

Shiites around Basrah after 91-war: Armed uprising quelled by the Iraqi army. Legal action acording to international law, even the US National Guard has used lethal force against much less armed and violent crowd, to say nothing of an armed uprising.

Kurds in Iraq and Turkey are like Chechens in Russia; rebels and separatists. There has been an ongoing war between the Kurds and the Iraqi and Turkish armies for ages.


heh, suddenly Im understanding what happened when the UN was in Bosnia in general and at Srebrenica in particular...

You are a disgrace.  

Lets take a look at one example from the Kurds:
Khorome, an ex-village located 80 kilometers south of the Turkish border. In August 1988 the Iraqi army came to town, raced every village and shot every male person between the ages of 10-70. The women and children were left, alive but without any belongings except for the clothes on their bodies.

Human Rights Watch estimates that Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurdish civilians.

Typical example of something Gscholtz wants to call an ongoing war between separatists and regular army. Kinda like what took place in Bosnia then?

Lets look at 91. According to Gscholz this is legal:

According to Human Rights Watch, "senior Arab diplomats told the London-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat in October [1991] that Iraqi leaders were privately acknowledging that 250,000 people were killed or dissappeared during the uprisings, with most of the casualties in the south."
Quote

The British Broadcasting Corp., which showed television footage of the grisly scene, said that at least 3,000 bodies were exhumed. It quoted unidentified human rights groups as saying that the graves could contain 10,000 to 15,000 bodies. Human Rights Watch did not confirm estimates of the number of people buried there.

The BBC said it did not know how or when the victims in the Hilla graves were killed, but said they could have been Shiite Muslims massacred by Iraqi forces after a Shiite uprising against Hussein after the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

Another grave containing more than 1,000 bodies was recently found in Muhammad Sakran village, about 25 miles north of Baghdad, Human Rights Watch said.


Halabja was not a front line town, that is a lie.