Author Topic: My impression of AH  (Read 4091 times)

RearGunner

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My impression of AH
« on: May 21, 2001, 06:37:00 PM »
At the risk of being unpopular, I will post what I think of this game from a newbie online flight simmer, but a veteran offline flight simmer point of view.

AH Bad Points:

1) Flight models feel all the same. I tested a few planes for just this purpose and I can honestly say they all felt the same, only the paint jobs changed (for me). I usually spot different handling characteristics straight away, even the minutest ones on all the flight sims I've tried, but I was chuffed on AH to find the difference between a 109 and a P-51.

2) Planes are bouncy. I started another thread on this and after a bit of research I have come to the conclusion that planes such as the Spitfire do not handle like a boat in real life. Yes, I am speaking as a non-pilot, but how many of you can honestly say you have ever flown a Spitfire or 109? Exactly, not many, so my opinion is as good as anyone of yours flying your Cessna 182 or commercial airliner. I stick by my belief that the aircraft bobbing simulated in this game is less realistic than the smooth plane modelling in CFS.

3) Connected with point 2 is the fact that the only way you can fly the planes in AH is to treat them as if they were a Boeing 747. When in a dog fight I start blacking out when not even half joystick pressure is applied, and if I do something about it, like apply opposite rudder (this helps make a tighter turn with less Gs), I soon enter into a spin (not uncontrollable, I can control most spins) which I find VERY frustrating. I've seen WW2 footage where planes of this era could do high g turns without much trouble. Also some stall angles are ridiculous. Yes, I understand stall has nothing to do with the speed of the plane, rather the speed air is flowing over the wing surface, but some of the stalls defy belief. If it was a Cessna 172 I would believe it, but not these planes.

4) I can land anywhere without much trouble. The ground surface has no effect on the planes undercarriage. The same is with takeoff. Try overshooting the runway in a bomber (easy to do). Try doing that on CFS. To give you an example I was playing CFS earlier, only 1 wheel came down on my undercarriage as my plane was a bit shot up. I landed leaning on my one good wheel (yes, I am that good), as soon as I slowed down, the plane flopped down onto the other side. If that isn't realism, I dont know what is. Oh, and I play with the full realism setting on always.

Those are my major gripes.

Having summed it all up, even though I've got 1 week and a few days left of my free period left, I won't be logging on anymore because I find it too frustrating. Especially with the black out. I would have preferred the whole screen to go black. C'mon, how many people fly with only a small black hole on their screen? Sorry, not realistic, and I'm all for realism. PLus that stall alarm noise *shudders*. Before anyone accuses me of quitting because it's too difficult, not true. I got my first kill within 10 minutes of playing. I just don't find it fun or realistic (as I imagine those planes would be). I think I'll just wait for WW2 online (hoping the flight modelling will be better). And with my 30 bucks a month, I'll just spend it on a game and add to my flight sim collection.


Sandman_SBM

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My impression of AH
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2001, 06:48:00 PM »
As I understand, the tunnel black out is more realistic. Of course, I can't speak of seeing it in real life. Most G I've ever done in an aircraft was about 4-5... just enough to feel the blood rushing down my carotid arteries...

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Offline Wardog

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My impression of AH
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2001, 06:52:00 PM »
hmm, i have no problems at all in AH. there about 500 guys here that would disagree with you. AH isnt CFS for a reason, we get 200 guys in an arena and playablity has a part in it.

How many guys from around the world do you get in CFS?

Nose bounce, i dont get any, FMs.. are done by real data thats availible. Landing with one gear blown of, done that here a number of times, plane spins to a stop some times and i exit safly or if to much brake on the only gear down whe rolls over and i die..

Seems to me you not doing something right, or you havent spent the time to setup you Jstick, deadband ,dampening and so on..

On the other hand, ive been flying online sims since 1989 in AW-DOS till now, maybe your spoiled on one Box game??

Dog out...........

Offline ra

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My impression of AH
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2001, 06:57:00 PM »
>>>1) Flight models feel all the same.

You haven't developed enough feel to tell the difference between planes.  If all planes were the same you wouldn't see so many Niki's and Spits, and so few P-38s and 190A8's.  Try flying a mission in a 190A8, then try the Zeke.

>>>2) Planes are bouncy.

This must be on your end, most players don't have this problem.  

>>>3)..I start blacking out when not even half joystick pressure is applied,..

Half joystick pressure is translated into using half your strength to haul back on the stick.  In real life that could well black you out in a fighter.  In AH full blackout occurs at 6 G's or so, not a lot by today's standards but HTC has done research and found that WWII pilots did not routinely pull over 6 G's, and they didn't use G-suits or spend a lot of time working on improving their G tolerance as todays pilots do.  

>>>...and if I do something about it, like apply opposite rudder (this helps make a tighter turn with less Gs), I soon enter into a spin ...

??

>>>4) I can land anywhere without much trouble.

Terrain is simplified.  No big deal, but it would be nice to have un-landable terrain.


We all started in box sims, but a sim like AH teaches you that WWII aircombat was not just Quake with wings.

ra



Offline Swager

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My impression of AH
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2001, 06:57:00 PM »
Troll, Troll, Troll your boat, gently down the stream.  

I wish I was expert enought to judge a good flight sim after only a few days.

HeHe!!  

I guess I need to go back to MSCFS to find out what it's supposed to be like!!

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Offline Karnak

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My impression of AH
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2001, 07:06:00 PM »
I'm sorry to see you, or anyone else, go.

Point 1)  I don't know what to say.  They feel VERY different to me.  The P-51D only turns slightly better, but it rolls staggeringly better.  The P-51D also maintains responsivness at higher speed.  The 109 can barely pull up at 450mph whereas the P-51 can do so easily.

Point 2) Hmmm, I don't have this problem.  The aircraft only bounce when I try to level FAST after a hard manuever.

Point 3) The blackout range in AH is 4-5 Gs, IIRC, which is something you'll never get in a Cessna 172 or 747.  Stall modeling seems pretty good to me.  The stall "buzzer" noise can simply be replaced with a buffeting sound if you prefer.  You are probably incurring accelerated stalls, which doesn't really have to do with the speed of the air over the wing.  An accelerated stall occurs when the wing's angle of attack gets to far off of the direction the aircraft is moving.  Basically, if you turn too tight the airflow over 1 or both wings will be disrupted and the wing(s) will lose lift and stall.

Point 4)  I agree.

It sounds to me like you are being a bit heavy handed at the controls.  This would incur all of the behavior that you described.  Its a new sim to you and it takes awhile to adjust.

BTW, HiTech has flown a P-51D.

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RearGunner

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My impression of AH
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2001, 07:31:00 PM »
It's not a troll, it's just my opinion. People who say that just can't face facts that there are people who have different views and opinions. "OH look! That guy thinks different. Bah..must be a troll". Grow up!

I agree on the point that the tunnel vision in pulling G's may be more realistic, but I don't think it realistic people flying constantly with tunnel vision. In real life, I bet you'd black out sooner or later. I can fly for half an hour like that.

As for "how many guys can you get in CFS" has nothing to do with it. I was talking about the flight modelling. Why not make it more like CFS? If you don't get any nose bounce, you must be one of the few. In my earlier post about this about a dozen guys acknowledged this fact of nose bounce. Anyway, not once did I ever say "nose bounce" in my last post. Seeing you use this word, I think you have experienced it before and know what I am talking about. About the one wheel gear landing, I never doubted that cannot be done in this game. I was just acknowledging how realistic CFS is considering a lot of people say it is "too easy and simplified". As for not doing something right, as I said, as soon as I logged on I took off perfectly, first engagement, shot down plane. I don't think it's that somehow. I have tweaked my joystick for almost an hour so not that either. I've been flying flight sims since 1987. My first was Flight Simulator for the Atari ST. My first copter simulator was in 1985; Apache from Digital Integration for the Sinclair Spectrum when I was 12 years old. So don't give me that please.

As I said before, I have played many flight sims, choppers, planes anything. I feel planes instantly and every sim I've played also. If hardly anybody flies a 190 it is testament to this game not being realistic as the 190 was considered one of the best planes in WW2. The Spity which you say many fly was inferior to the 190 except for the Mk IX which was quickly put together to counter this threat. Sorry, but you've just shot down your own argument there.
Using rudder when turning causes less slip in normal banking therefore you get a more efficient turn. I have a technique I use for turning when banked 90 degrees which involves opposite rudder, which allows for a more efficient turn and keeps the nose in a high attitude. Don't ask me where I read it, cause I don't remember, though I know it works. And as for Quake with wings, thats the impression AH gives me. No strategy, its all a gank fest. Rarely 1 on 1, usually 4 on 1 or worse. No opportunity to employ high yo-yo, immelmans, lead turn.

To conclude, I think guys who play this game can't cut the mustard in games like CFS on full realism. How many of you can tell me you have completed the game with full rank and medals? Ha, thought so.



[This message has been edited by RearGunner (edited 05-21-2001).]

Offline Vosper

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My impression of AH
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2001, 07:46:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RearGunner:
It's not a troll....I think guys who play this game can't cut the mustard in games like CFS on full realism. How many of you can tell me you have completed the game with full rank and medals? Ha, thought so.
[This message has been edited by RearGunner (edited 05-21-2001).]

Hmmmm, sure sounding like one after that.

One could turn the question around and ask "How many have the skill and determination to stick around and really learn this game before signing off in a huff because it doesn't immediately sync with their expert knowledge?

Don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.

Cheers

Vosper

RearGunner

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My impression of AH
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2001, 07:57:00 PM »
For 30 bucks a month, no thanks.

10 yes, 20 maybe 30 not like this.

If it was modelled more like CFS I would. 30 is a lot in my opinion, and to pay that amount I would have to love it straight away. I know if I'll like something about 5 minutes of trying it.

I am still convinced CFS is the more realistic of the two. I drive a real car and I play the occasional car racing game. Now if someone gave me two racing games and asked me which was the more realistic based on my driving experience (11 years), I would be lying if I said which one was the more realistic. The same goes for pilots on this message board. A Cessna 172 or an Airbus 320 flown gently does not compare to these planes. I can only go on my instincts.

Hmm...yeah ok it is a troll. Must be, because it differs from your opinion. How childish.

RearGunner

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My impression of AH
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2001, 08:00:00 PM »
OH right, Vosper. It's a troll only if I answer back in the same way others speak to me. Now I get it.

Offline Lephturn

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My impression of AH
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2001, 08:11:00 PM »
Ok, first of all if you really want to feel the planes, go into setup and disable Combat Trim.  That will give you a much better feel for the planes if that's what you are looking for.  You can still trim the planes manually, or use the auto-trim modes to help.

1)  Disabling combat trim may cure some of this.  I can sure tell the difference between a spit 5 and a Jug.  Between a 109f and a P51.  The flight control and handling differences are just obvious to me.  Try a high speed dive in a 109f.  Now try it in a P51.  The difference is obvious.  Try looping a Zeke of the runway.  Now try it with a 190.  When your done crashing the 190, you'll see the difference.    The flight characteristics are not perfect, but the differences are accurate from my view.  The planes perform how they should in comparison to one another.  A Spit V will out-turn a Spit IX.  A Zeke will out-turn anything.  A Pony will out-run most anything.  A Jug really shines at high-altitude.  All the differences in flight modelling are there.

2)  Nose bounce is generally indicative of some sort of control setup problem.  This can almost always be cured by scaling your stick inputs and increasing the damping slider for the axis you are having trouble with.  Rudder can be a bit of a tough one to smooth out if you have a twisty stick like I do, but pitch and roll should be smooth if you have everything set right.

3)  How much joystick pressure you apply is completely irrelevent.  This is all about G forces.  The harder you turn and the faster you are flying when you do it, the more G's you are going to pull.  When you pull too many, you begin to grey out, you get tunnel vision.  Ah models this pretty well, your vision narrows until it is completely black.  Pull too hard for too long and you'll black out completely.  This is quite realistic.

There are a couple of planes that seem to have some odd stall behaviour, but for the most part the planes behave as they should.  The F6F5 has a really nasty accelerated stall behaviour that seems overly harsh, and the P-38 has some strangeness, but it's fairly minor.  The others are quite well done, and seem to portray their real traits quite well.  Accelerated stalls are part of aviation, you can stall at very high speeds if you pull enough G's at high angles of attack.  Oh, and BTW, it's a HECK of a lot easier to stall a WWII fighter that weighs a LOT than it is to stall a Cessna 172.  Heck most WWII birds will fall out of the sky at the Cessna's cruising speed.

4) Yep, the ground doesn't tear you up.  It's supposed to be grassland I guess.  However, you can get one landing gear shot off in AH and still have the same tricky landing results you mention.  That works just fine in AH.

Um, I'm not sure it's realism you are looking for.  The blackouts in particular are pretty realistic, that's what happens when you start to go... your vision narrows.  It's more realistic than having your screen suddenly go black.

BTW, I hate the default stall horn too.  I use an old one that's more of a buzzer.  If you email me at sconrad@hfx.eastlink.ca I'll send it to you if you like.

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Offline Creamo

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My impression of AH
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2001, 08:19:00 PM »
At the risk of being unpopular...

You meant to say at the purpose of being unpopular.

You use the comments "Childish" and "Grow up!" and spend more time complaining about the price, even mentioning you would play for $10 or $20 a month for it anyway.

I didn't like AH at first either after only flying Hornet Korea, CFS, and Falcon 4.0. It was unfamilair and I had no idea of what was going on. I see where your coming from having been there.

You'll hang around and figure it out, and be glad you did. Comments like "all the flight models feel the same", and "I think guys who play this game can't cut the mustard in games like CFS on full realism" will seem as silly to you as they do to most the guys reading this. Or you wont.

HAve fun arguing anyways.



Offline blutic

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My impression of AH
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2001, 08:24:00 PM »
I don't know flight model from fashion model, I just have fun when I fly. <S>

blutic

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[This message has been edited by blutic (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Offline Swager

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My impression of AH
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2001, 08:30:00 PM »
You are correct RG!!

Your observations were right on, I stand corrected.  In the presence of a true flight simulator expert, I am no match!  I am not worthy!

Growing up is sooo painful!!  

Thank you for enlightening me on the subject!

Good luck in your travels!    



[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 05-21-2001).]
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RearGunner

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My impression of AH
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2001, 09:08:00 PM »
Creamo, I think money has a lot to do with it! Unless you're born rich, or are called Bill Gates, I think we all look at where we spend it. And if you are one of the two, don't be such a snob as you'll find the large majority of people are not rich. I was in two minds to leave or not. After the first hour of playing this game I instantly loved it. I thought, sure, the flight model is not what I expected, but I'll get used to it. Then, playing a bit and not being able to try any manouvers because as soon as I out turn one guy, I turn right into the path of the other and another also. So to compensate I try more audacious manouvers and what happens? Spin after spin, so now I don't get ganked, I just crash. I find it frustrating. So as I said, the price is the ultimate limitting factor here, as paying that much is excessive (in my opinion) for something you are not sure you will like.
 
Swager, get off your high horse. Maybe if you try 1v1 over a LAN you'd find out just how good you really are (not).

Sure I'm unpopular Creamo. Every one who is bold enough to "not go with the flow" and speak their mind on boards like these is considered a pariah. That's why I said it. What else is new?