Author Topic: A really great book (Read 420 times)

Maniac · « **on:** December 29, 2003, 01:53:16 PM »

For Habu

Habu · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:17:55 PM »

Thanks M8.

For those of you interested in aviation I recently bought and read a really great book.

FAC's or Forward Air Controllers were the guys who flew low and slow in Viet Nam looking for targets and directing the air strikes. The had a saying "Shoot at the FAC and pay the price" which was quite true and they usually had more firepower at their fingertips than almost anyone else, and the authority to direct it where ever they saw fit.

Jimmie Butler was an FAC in the war and has written a really good fiction book on what it was like. I am glad he chose to write fiction as that way he could really make it exciteing. Every other book I have on the topic (like "Hit my Smoke") is non fiction and somewhat dry.

I ordered a book from him a few weeks ago. For $40 he sent me a very well printed signed and personalized first edition. It was a great read. If you order one tell him you heard about from the guy in Canada who is looking to buy an O2-A

A Certain Brotherhood

Dux · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:48:48 PM »

I read a good nonfiction FAC book a few years ago, called "A Lonely Kind of War" by Marshall Harrison. I thought it was excellent. Is this one of the "dry" ones that you've read, Habu?

midnight Target · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:51:32 PM »

Commonly called a Bronco I believe.

Dux · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:54:53 PM »

oops, wouldn't link.

Look up Cessna Skymaster or O-2, or Oscar Deuce. If you saw the movie Bat21, it was what Danny Glover was flying.

Bronco was the OV-10.

midnight Target · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:56:31 PM »

I was wrong.

O2- A Oscar

OV-10 Bronco

Habu · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:57:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dux
I read a good nonfiction FAC book a few years ago, called "A Lonely Kind of War" by Marshall Harrison. I thought it was excellent. Is this one of the "dry" ones that you've read, Habu?

I have not read it. Thanks for the tip. By dry I mean they talk about numbers of FAC and success stats and number of missions flown etc. Not details of actual missions.

Habu · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:02:49 PM »

Yes an O2-A (or Cessna O2-A will give you better hits) is a two engine military version of the popular C-337 with some significant differences.

Thicker wing skins, about twice as many rivets, heavier weight, hard points for the weapon pods, self sealing tanks, racks of radios and lots of funny antennas on the top.

Used ones sell anywhere for 45k for ones that need some serious up to about 100k for mint ones with low time engines.

Only problem is that you have to have lots of twin engine retractable gear time to get insurance as an owner. I am trying to work a deal with a guy that includes about 200 hours of duel instruction which is what it would take to get good insurance rates. I probably will end up with a C-172 but if the planets all align and my karma is good who knows.

Dux · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:02:55 PM »

Then you'd probably enjoy this one, Habu. Just the first chapter alone is amazing, describing the workload on a typical FAC mission... Directing CAS from 5 different directions on to 10 different targets, all the while navigating, while handling 8 different radio freqs, while avoiding AAA... these guys are truly unsung heroes. (not that anybody over there then wasn't).

midnight Target · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:08:09 PM »

The guy next to me (Our Internet Director) was a Marine A-4 pilot in VN. He related this story to me.

All Marine pilots spent a portion of their tour as a forward air controller on the ground. During his time in the dirt, he would communicate to the Oscar or Bronco pilot who would in turn relay the info to the guys with the big bombs and such.

Well one fine day my friend is nearly overrun by VC. They are within 50 yards of his position and closing. He called the Oscar pilot and told him of the situation. The ground control pilot then flew in REALLY low to make sure his coordinates to the ordinance guys was accurate. The napalm drop was 30 yards away from my friends foxhole.

But that's not the end of the story. My buddy (A Captain in the Marines) proceeds to write a comendation letter to the Oscar pilot's CO. This of course resulted in the Oscar Pilot's demotion and grounding for "Flying too low".

All true.

Habu · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:14:06 PM »

Nice pics midnight. Why would anyone who owns a Bronco paint it such a wimpy colour? Vietnam Grey with maybe a shark mouth is the only way to go.

Another movie with a clip of an O2-A is Appocolapse Now. When they are doing the famous surfing at the beach scene and are getting morter fire from the trees Robert Duval calls a FAC to direct the Napalm strike.

I recent saw the extended DVD of that movie. Lots of new scenes including one where they steal Robert Duvals surf board and he sends his choppers up the river broadcasting "Lance we will not hurt you. Just give me the board back. It is so hard to find a board you like." Even though it was Sheen who steals the board. They also have a total new scene where they stop at a French plantation way north of the Du Long bridge to bury Clean when he gets shot.

Nit picky point. The O2-A in the movie was obviously not a real O2-A and was probably just a painted C-337. It did not have any pods under its wings (the big tip off) and also did not have the FM attenna on the roof.

Habu · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:17:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
The guy next to me (Our Internet Director) was a Marine A-4 pilot in VN. He related this story to me.

All Marine pilots spent a portion of their tour as a forward air controller on the ground. During his time in the dirt, he would communicate to the Oscar or Bronco pilot who would in turn relay the info to the guys with the big bombs and such.

Well one fine day my friend is nearly overrun by VC. They are within 50 yards of his position and closing. He called the Oscar pilot and told him of the situation. The ground control pilot then flew in REALLY low to make sure his coordinates to the ordinance guys was accurate. The napalm drop was 30 yards away from my friends foxhole.

But that's not the end of the story. My buddy (A Captain in the Marines) proceeds to write a comendation letter to the Oscar pilot's CO. This of course resulted in the Oscar Pilot's demotion and grounding for "Flying too low".

All true.

You know there is a very similar chapter in this book. The guys flys a Birddog really low, sees a huge truck park that is hidden under cammo and trees and calls in an airstrike. Later his CO chews him out and transfers him to a really crappy base.

Midnight ask him if he every flew interdiction on the Ho Chi Minh trail in Laos. If he did then he probably was talking to Cricket FAC's and might know the author.

midnight Target · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:56:17 PM »

He said Yes, he flew about a dozen or so missions over Laos. He didn't recall a "cricket" though.

He was there 1967-68.

Habu · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2003, 04:16:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
He said Yes, he flew about a dozen or so missions over Laos. He didn't recall a "cricket" though.

He was there 1967-68.

The FAC's that worked out of Thailand were known as Crickets. They flew with the callsign Nail. They painted little crickets on their planes. I will look up some info on the name of the base they flew out of and other things your friend my remember and post back later.

edit.

Found this link where the author comments on an incident that took place around the same time your collegue was over there.

Rescue

Habu · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2004, 03:32:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dux
I read a good nonfiction FAC book a few years ago, called "A Lonely Kind of War" by Marshall Harrison. I thought it was excellent. Is this one of the "dry" ones that you've read, Habu?

Found a copy at Amazon.com and ordered Dux. It is out of print but they have a book finding service.

I am looking forward to reading it. Should be here in a week or so.

I went to look at that O2-A that is for sale yesterday. The guy reduced his price a bit and is willing to fly with me till I have enough hours to get a good insurance rate. I have a lot of soul searching to do now.