Author Topic: Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes  (Read 1136 times)

Offline FUNKED1

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2004, 11:39:20 AM »
And that 05 Stang is probably still riding on a 1979 Ford Fairmont chassis.  :rolleyes:

Offline Frogm4n

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2004, 11:42:12 AM »
Miko sometimes you open up your mouth before you know what the hell your talking about. dont worry dude, i do it all the time as well.

Offline gofaster

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2004, 11:43:48 AM »
I've always thought the domestic designs were held out for sale past the point of their competitiveness.  Honda and Toyota released new designs every 4 or 5 years, whereas the domestics sell the same design for 8 to 10 (i.e. the Pontiac Firebird, Chevy Cavalier, Jeep Cherokee, Ford Escort).

Offline Ripsnort

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2004, 12:08:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
I've always thought the domestic designs were held out for sale past the point of their competitiveness.  Honda and Toyota released new designs every 4 or 5 years, whereas the domestics sell the same design for 8 to 10 (i.e. the Pontiac Firebird, Chevy Cavalier, Jeep Cherokee, Ford Escort).


I'm guessing that maybe the tooling-up costs is why Detroit stayed with models so long, the Japanese learned how to do rapid prototyping and tooling.  Now Detroit is the grasshopper, learning?

Offline Ripsnort

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2004, 12:09:56 PM »
Automakers jumping on the rear-wheel drive train


BY MARK PHELAN
Knight Ridder Newspapers


After spending more than 20 years and untold advertising dollars convincing buyers that front-wheel-drive cars are the safest, most practical way to drive, several major automakers are about to change course.

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., and DamilerChrysler AG have re-evaluated which wheels should power many of their cars, and the results are about to show up on roads and in driveways near you.

To help understand how automakers use wheels to control how a vehicle is driven, think of front-wheel drive as a horse pulling a load -- dependable but not exciting. Rear-wheel drive, like a cheetah, is all about speed. A mountain goat represents the surefootedness and control of all-wheel drive.

The traditional American brands threw their full marketing weight behind front-wheel drive after the fuel crises of the 1970s. Suddenly forced to build smaller, more fuel-efficient cars, Detroit's automakers turned to FWD, which helps maximize interior room because the engine sits crosswise, allowing a shorter hood and a layout that does not require a hump in a car's floor to make room for a drive shaft to the rear wheels.

Detroit tried to make a virtue of necessity with advertisements that touted the fact that FWD cars have better traction in snow because the entire weight of the engine and transmission sits over the wheels that drive the car. That weight pushes the wheels down, improving traction when starting out on a slippery surface.

But FWD had major drawbacks when it came to power and handling. When the front wheels must handle both steering and driving power, the car's handling and steering response suffer. Putting the engine and transmission at the very front of the car also adversely affects its weight distribution, which leads to less responsive handling.

Rear-wheel drive, which powered virtually all American cars until the 1980s, was relegated to high-power cars like the Chevrolet Corvette and Ford Crown Victoria police cars and to powerful European luxury cars whose fuel economy was not an issue. Because the engine, drive shaft and transmission run from the front of the car to its rear axle, RWD also lends itself to the classic long-nosed proportions of luxury and performance cars.

Recent technical advances including electronic control systems that reduce wheel spin and improve traction have reduced FWD's advantage in snow and ice.

In the next 12 months, Ford, GM and DaimlerChrysler will step out of their comfort zones to offer rear- and all-wheel-drive cars.

All-wheel drive, which distributes power to whichever wheels need it for the best overall traction, was traditionally the reserve of small brands like Audi and Subaru, which used it to stand out from the pack. While it improves traction, AWD also adds weight and cost and reduces fuel economy.

Chrysler's big bet

Early in 2004, DaimlerChrysler will bet a large part of its future on a new family of big high-power, rear- and all-wheel-drive cars including the Chrysler 300C and Dodge Magnum.

GM is weaning Cadillac away from front drive as it strives to compete with fast and powerful models from Mercedes and BMW. The big change comes next fall when the FWD Cadillac Seville is replaced by a new rear- and all-wheel-drive, full-size sedan. GM will also offer all-wheel-drive versions of its new minivans and probably of family sedans like the new Chevrolet Malibu and Pontiac G6, which replaces the Grand Am next fall.

"You'll see a wider variety in the future," says Mark Hogan, GM group vice president for advanced vehicle development. "GM's size and our global affiliates leave us uniquely positioned to offer a variety of choices."

GM's affiliates include Subaru, which is providing the first AWD model for Saab, another member of the GM family.

The Ford Five Hundred

Ford will replace its aging Taurus and Sable midsize sedans with new models that include the U.S. industry's first high-volume, all-wheel-drive family sedans, the Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.

That doesn't mean front-wheel drive will go away. It will remain the predominant way to power minivans, small cars and big-selling midsize models like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry: vehicles with limited power that put a premium on interior room.

But after years of promoting FWD as the ideal layout for all cars, the carmakers are adopting a more nuanced tactic that tailors their drive trains to fit the different types of cars they sell.

All-wheel drive

All-wheel drive, for example, accounts for a growing proportion of luxury car sales. Mercedes' offers it on most of its models, and it accounts for 80 percent of sales of its $78,000-plus S430 and S500 models in the Midwest and nearly 30 percent of sales of smaller C-class.

"We see [AWD] sales growing further as consumer awareness increases," said Bart Herring, C-class product manager for Mercedes-Benz U.S.A. Inc.

Subaru sells exclusively all-wheel-drive models in the United States, while Audi's all-wheel-drive Quattro models account for more than 90 percent of worldwide sales of some of the German brand's sales.

Mercedes promotes 4Matic as a safety feature, similar to the approach Volvo has taken with its growing line of all-wheel-drive models. All Volvo models except the entry-level 40 series and C70 convertible are available with AWD.

AWD can help an automaker win new customers, said Jim Hall vice president for industry analysis at the Southfield office of supplier AutoPacific.

"If the Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego are priced correctly, all-wheel drive could be a confidence builder for customers looking for family cars," he said. "It may draw some buyers Ford wouldn't get any other way."

Winning customers

Only the Japanese seem to be resisting the lure of AWD cars.

While offering all-wheel-drive versions of their SUVs and crossover wagons, they have stuck to front drive for top-selling sedans like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. (Toyota and Nissan offer primarily rear-drive models for their Lexus and Infiniti luxury brands.)

"Toyota could offer all-wheel drive in almost every car it sells in the U.S.," Hall said. "They don't see it as a relevant feature that would add to their sales."

He added that all-wheel drive could boost sales of struggling brands.

"If Pontiac can pitch all-wheel drive as an enhancement to handling and performance, that will sell," he said. "The Chevrolet Malibu and Ford Five Hundred can both benefit from pushing it as a safety feature.

"It can win them some additional customers."

Offline Tarmac

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2004, 12:13:23 PM »
A good American AWD car would be awesome.  I've loved Subarus for a while, but couldn't bring myself to buy a foreign car.

Yeah, I'm from Detroit.

Offline Sway

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2004, 12:18:03 PM »
Had galant GT 6 speed Limited Edition before.  Fast as hell, but the sad part was I had to lose it cause it cost too much to get fixed here in the US.  One thing went wrong, followed by many others, and it just cost too much for the parts. Fun while it lasted though, 0-60 in about 5 seconds, so it put ya in your seat. :D

Offline Ripsnort

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2004, 12:19:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tarmac
A good American AWD car would be awesome.  I've loved Subarus for a while, but couldn't bring myself to buy a foreign car.

Yeah, I'm from Detroit.


My wifes Explorer basically is AWD...it runs 2WD until it detects slip, then it goes AWD automatically. (You have the option to do it manually too, 4WD high, and 4WD low)

Remember the AWD AMC? LOL!

Offline Sway

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2004, 12:20:00 PM »
Not that anything I said was involved with this post, just thought you might want to know. :D

Offline Tarmac

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2004, 12:27:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
My wifes Explorer basically is AWD...it runs 2WD until it detects slip, then it goes AWD automatically. (You have the option to do it manually too, 4WD high, and 4WD low)

Remember the AWD AMC? LOL!


Shoulda clarified, I meant cars.  Ford Exploder Uglymobiles don't count.  On second thought, they do count more than a foreign SUV does.  ;)

My next car is probably going to be a Jeep Cherokee with full-time 4wd, unless I see something unbelievable at this year's NAIAS auto show.

ed again: That AMC was built until 1987?  Dang, I thought it was a late 70's - early 80's car.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2004, 12:30:48 PM by Tarmac »

Offline Urchin

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2004, 12:37:23 PM »
I was talking about the 05's.. they look sharp as hell, in my opinion.  I like the retro look on the front.

Offline Sway

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2004, 12:40:10 PM »
Front looks like old BMW IMO.

Offline Urchin

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2004, 12:42:44 PM »
They don't exactly look like the old Mustangs... and they look nothing like the "new" ones (1994-now)... but I think they look a lot better than the present body.  

Time will tell if they look sharp but run like garbage.

Offline FUNKED1

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2004, 12:43:32 PM »
AWD pwn5 j00.  
All your diffs are belong to us.

Offline Sway

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Gee, Detroit Auto makers finally open eyes
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2004, 12:45:12 PM »
Rear lights look similar to recent mustangs