Author Topic: What about Blair? (Read 846 times)

-dead- · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2004, 02:15:13 PM »

The Brits just love Bliar

Swoop · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2004, 02:22:54 PM »

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Originally posted by slimm50
Heh, sounds familiar. Didn't we "colonists" have pretty much the same issue with King George a couple hundred yrs ago?

"...and the beat goes on..."

Hey we had the same issue with him........but what say did a peasant have 200 years ago? 'bout the same as he does now really, bugger all.

Swoop · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2004, 02:26:54 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Dowding/Swoop - if there were to be a referendum on joining the € , which way would you vote (if you don't mind my asking)? I'm inclined to say I would vote NO. Loss of control over our interest rates is not something which can be taken lightly.

I'd vote no. For various reasons. 1) Sterling is a great name for a currency don't ya think? 2) It's our bloody currency and we wanna keep it. 3) Who gives a toss about the convenience of a single currency, we've been using exchanges for years without a problem anyway. 4) If we'd have lost in 1940 we'd have a single currency, it may even have been named the Euro. Or maybe the ReichEuro.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2004, 03:46:28 PM »

maybe they should give the power back to the Queen ....couldnt be any worse than what the have now

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!

cpxxx · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2004, 05:30:44 PM »

Ha the Euro. Despite all the arguments in Britain about the Euro. Not one country who has joined the Euro wants to go back.

But I find it mildly hilarious when Blair or Brown or whoever mumbles on about the 'five economic tests' Why five,why not six or four? It's a snowjob. They are waiting until public opinion swings towards the Euro.

That's because most arguments against Britain joining the Euro are more emotional than sensible, like Swoop's comments.

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I'd vote no. For various reasons. 1) Sterling is a great name for a currency don't ya think? 2) It's our bloody currency and we wanna keep it. 3) Who gives a toss about the convenience of a single currency, we've been using exchanges for years without a problem anyway. 4) If we'd have lost in 1940 we'd have a single currency, it may even have been named the Euro. Or maybe the ReichEuro.

It rates alongside warm beer, the English banger. 'It's British and we're proud of it' with a tear in their eye. The loss of soverignty argument, it's tedious. The French, as the Yanks noticed haven't stopped being French nor have the Germans gained a sense of humour since joining the Euro. It's just money, guys, money. I personally don't care what colour the money is as long as I have lots of it.

Despite all the fuss over the issue not one country in Euroland seems to have suffered because of it. Only Britain it seems would lose it's identity becoming a Euro statelet, ruled from Strasbourg, the Queen exiled and be forced to drive on the right.

There won't be a referendum until public opinion favours the Euro. Anti Euros want a referendum because they know they'll win this time and that sets back the any chance of joining for many years. Another reason for the lack of a referendum is the fact that they are rare in British politics. Maybe it's to do with the lack of a written constitution, woudn't you say?

But like it or not Britain will join the Euro eventually. Probably just after it's realised that the economy has been damaged by staying out. I would even venture to suggest that it will be a Tory government who makes the decision. There are bigger issues at work here than mere holiday exchange rates and misty eyed sentimentality. No country truly controls it's own economy these days. The markets decide. Even the USA cannot change that. This is all about big business. When big business decides they want in. Britain will join.

That's the reality.

Pei · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2004, 09:14:01 PM »

The arguments against joining are not all emotional.

1) Joining the Euro means Westminster losing power to the EU. I have enough trouble getting Westminster to do what I want, let alone Brussels.

2) Joining the Euro means changing economic policy to be more in line with the other Euro zone countries. Take a look at how the French and German economies have fared in the last few years compared with the UK economy.

3) The single currency is a one size fit's all solution. One size doesn't fit all: there are significant differences between the different economies and good policy for one might not be good policy for another.

4) The EU has done a poor job management and control throughout it's lifetime (how much money has the CAP lost to embezzlement and fraud?). Look at the so called convergence criteria (i.e. public debt and spending): the Germans are allowed to violate it at will because they are a big country, likewise France has been manipulating it's figures since before the Euro was launched in order to meet the restrictions. How can you have a well run economy when the various regions can do whatever they like?

I'm all for open markets and a certain amount of standardization. After that further european integration makes no sense. The countries involved are just too diverse culturally, politcally and economically for it too work. Maybe after a few generations of convergence it might work well: for now it is an interesting experiment that I don't wish to be part of.

NUKE · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2004, 09:46:48 PM »

The EU is a mistake IMO. I feel it's a big disaster waiting to happen.

Im not anti European though......I just feel the EU is a big powder keg and I honestly believe it could be the root cause of a major war in Europe some day.

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2004, 10:26:55 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
anyone read the readers digest article this month where they compare bush/blair with churchill/roosevelt?

good article

hahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA...........

beet1e · « **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2004, 03:39:51 AM »

Pei, you were spot on with that post. If only joining the € were as easy as adapting to new bank notes and coins - something we did here in 1971.

But it isn't as easy, for the reasons Pei gave - particularly points 2 and 3. The individual economies do not work the same way, so it's pointless to pretend that they do. And yes, Germany was in the doo-doo last year as their economy was flagging. They needed interest rates to be set at around ½%, but were stuck with the Brussels mandated €-wide 3½%.

Disparate economies exist between the individual states of the US, but there they have a federal govt., federal taxes, federal grants etc. We don't have that - yet. I'm almost tempted to suggest that the single currency has been implemented to precipitate some form of economic crisis, and the only way to deal with it is... federal govt., federal taxes etc.

No thanks.

Joc · « **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2004, 03:45:00 AM »

Blair is a total avacado,Id sooner have a sheep in power..............mmmmmmmm:aok

Swoop · « **Reply #25 on:** March 31, 2004, 04:06:20 AM »

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Originally posted by cpxxx
Ha the Euro.

So you've first hand experience of this then have you? You've polled every single European citizen and found every single one of them very happy with the Euro have you?

Well pal, I've lived in a European country that's switched from it's sovereign currency to the Euro.....in fact I was living here when the switch happened. The price of everything went up. Everything. If there was a round up or down to choose from it went up. And if there wasn't a round up or down to choose from they put the price up anyway.

I know plenty of Cloggies who'd like the Guilder back.
And have you seen the current situation in France and Germany?

Not suffered, my arse.

In fact I don't even want to be a part of the Common Market anymore, but getting out of that would be difficult to say the least.

straffo · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2004, 04:53:33 AM »

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Originally posted by Swoop
And have you seen the current situation in France and Germany?

Not suffered, my arse.

Seriously for myself and my familly : nothing happened , nada ,zlitch ,nib ,que dalle !

Sure the price went up a bit but nothing like a disaster.

And those who cheated by increasing their prices got the previsible pay back : they lost customers.

@Pei I don't understand your sentence about Westminster as an Australian how will it have an impact on you.
Excuse my ignorance ,I don't know the link bewteen UK and commonwealth.

Swoop · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2004, 06:27:48 AM »

Pei isn't an Australian.

Momus-- · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2004, 06:59:48 AM »

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Maybe it's to do with the lack of a written constitution, woudn't you say?

Britain does have a written consitution, it's just not all written in one place. I think you're mistaking constitution for bill of rights.

As for the Euro, I'd rather not until the EU is seriously reformed.

As for Blair, he's a scumbag but he's the best we're going to get until either Brown replaces him or someone like Ken Clarke takes over the Conservative party.

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When he first came to power he cut student grants and introduced the student-loans company

Nope, the Conservatives introduced the SLC in 1990 and froze the grants at the same time. I should know, I was in my 1st year at Uni at the time.

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I just feel the EU is a big powder keg and I honestly believe it could be the root cause of a major war in Europe some day.

I'm sure you can expand on this theory Nuke, please enlighten us poor benighted Euros.

beet1e · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2004, 07:52:35 AM »

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Originally posted by Dowding
I thought things were about to change for the better in 1997... that feeling lasted all of 3 weeks.

Yep, and you weren't the only one. I had hopes - not high hopes, just hopes - and yes, it lasted a few weeks, no more.

All this Blair spin about "New" Labour is just that - spin. It isn't New Labour. It isn't even Old Labour in a new disguise. It is, quite simply, Old Labour. Tax & Spend. Hurl money at public services but with no control over how it is spent. By 2006, the number of civil servants will be back to 1979 levels. Oh wait, they say they're cutting back. Oh well then it must be true.

Labour has been discredited at every level - including immigration policy.

Pei - nice avatar - Ringwood Old Thumper. I don't think I've ever had a pint of that, but if I do I'll drink to you mate!